The Stories We Carry After Someone Dies with Steve Beal Sr.

In this episode of Seeing Death Clearly, I’m joined by writer and father of six Steve Beal Sr. for a conversation about family stories, grief, faith, and what we can learn when we take the time to really listen to the people who came before us.

Steve shares how traveling with his mother to New Brunswick, Canada, to visit aging relatives eventually led him to begin recording the stories and experiences that would become a book about family, memory, and what he calls “generation jumping”, intentionally connecting with older generations and preserving their stories before they are lost.

We talk about what happened when Steve brought his aunt back to the family farm and how being in that familiar place brought memories and stories back to the surface. We also talk about the stories our relatives tell over and over, why those repetitions can mean something different after someone dies, and how laughter and grief can exist right alongside each other.

Steve and I also discuss what our children learn by watching us care for aging family members, the importance of making room for deeper conversations, and the awareness that we don’t always have as much time with the people we love as we think we do.

Faith is also an important part of Steve’s story. He shares how Christian hope has shaped the way he understands death and grief, including his experiences with family funerals, while still leaving room for the sadness and mourning that come with losing someone we love.

At the heart of our conversation is something simple: ask the questions, listen to the stories, spend the time, and pay attention to the people you love while they are still here.

00:00 Intentionality Matters

00:15 Meet Jill and Steve

02:52 How the Book Began

05:39 New Brunswick Roots

06:46 From Sports to Spirit

10:43 Publishing and Purpose

14:04 Taking Elders Home

19:13 Hope and Grief

22:20 Grandmother Funeral Memory

23:34 Hymns and Poetry

24:23 Celebration Amid Loss

25:23 Laughs at Funerals

26:04 Bible on Grief

28:05 Dad’s Wake Stories

31:34 Record Family History

33:21 Modeling Care for Elders

36:26 Questions for Grammy

41:07 Nature and God Connection

44:25 Where to Find Steve

Blog: 1inawesomewonder.com

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SteveBealSr

Substack: https://substack.com/@inhumbleadoration

Generation Jumping on Amazon: https://a.co/d/09QBc3on

Transcript

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Steve: [00:00:00] Any one of us can do this. It really just becomes about intentionality. Either you wanna make that difference or you don't. Either you wanna preserve it or you don't. And I'm not saying it's an all or nothing thing, but you're never gonna be unrewarded by doing it. 

Jill: Welcome back to Seeing Death Clearly.

I'm your host, Jill McClennen, a death doula and funeral celebrant. Here on the show, I have conversations about death, dying, grief, and life itself. And sometimes those conversations are really about the stories we carry with us and the people who came before us. Because so much of what we carry after someone dies comes from those ordinary things, the stories they told us over and over, the places that mattered to them, the laughter we shared, and the memories we made together.

Today, I'm joined by Steve Beal Sr., a father of six and writer whose experiences traveling with his mother to visit aging relatives eventually became the foundation for a book about family, memory, grief, and what he calls generation jumping. [00:01:00] Steve and I talk about the importance of preserving the stories of our elders, including what happened when he brought his aunt back to the family farm and watched memories come flooding back.

We talk about modeling care for older family members for our children, making space for deeper conversations, and recognizing that our time together really is limited. We also talk about faith, the role Christian hope has played in Steve's understanding of death and grief, and how hope can exist alongside loss without taking the grief away.

Underneath it all is a reminder to pay attention, ask questions, listen to stories, and spend time with the people who matter while we still can. Thank you for joining us for this conversation. Welcome, Steve, to the podcast. Thank you for coming on today. I've been looking forward to talking to you. I read a little bit about your work and what you wrote your book about.

So why don't you start me off, though. First, like, where are you in the world? Like, give me a little background about who you are. 

Steve: Well, first of all, Jill, thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this as well. Where am I in the [00:02:00] world? I am a dad of six kids. I was a stay-at-home dad for our youngest two, who are twins, for a number of years, which honestly came out of circumstances we would have never come up with on our own.

A whole bunch of things were happening, and it was like, "Hey, why don't we do this?" And I believe that was divinely intervened. I work full time. I write as much as I can, and I started a blog in 2011 that ended up becoming... It's a sports blog is really how it started, but it's become a spiritual place, and ultimately led to the book, which is why we're having the conversation, or at least how we got to know each other.

I'm just constantly busy. You mentioned before we started recording how everything just takes so much time, and I agree with that 100%. Otherwise, I'd be an expert in at least one thing. But I don't think I'm an expert at actually anything, so it just takes too much time apparently. 

Jill: I know your book has to do with not necessarily taking care of elders, but this connection to our [00:03:00] elders and people's stories.

And so how did you end up coming up with this idea to write the book that you wrote? 

Steve: This kind of flies in the face of what we were just saying about how everything takes so much time. It's never the right time to have kids. It's never the right time to buy the house. It's never the right time to do this, because we could think of 100 reasons why this can't work now.

But if that were the case, we'd never do anything, and that was really the book. And actually, to be honest, it was never about a book. It was about my mom never had her license, so I was oftentimes her ride to New Brunswick, where her family's from, where I've lost several members of that family of the generation before me.

And God's honest truth, I started recording information in notes, in napkins, in little... anything I could scratch something on as they were happening. I don't even think I was looking at it from a standpoint of memory as much as sharing information in the moment. Like, who couldn't be there? Was there a health update?

Yeah. Or were we all meeting at somebody's house at [00:04:00] 6:00 before we went over to the hospital to see somebody? All these things, and when you're going through them, there's not a lot of time. And then you get to the end of one of those days, and you're like, "Oh, man, which... what, what did I do? What, what, which came first?"

So I just started making notes, and that ultimately became the book. But to get back to the original point of time, none of those were absent of all the other time that is accounted for in our daily life, our daily schedule. And thanks to my wife and my family and the support that I've had over the years to be able to go and do these things outside of all the things that are already packed, that's where I get into some of the pillars of my book with the intentionality of our actions.

And again, I wouldn't have defined it as that probably at that moment either, but that's what it has become, and it really has made a difference, and it was never the right time to do any of those things per se, but it was exactly the right time. You just had to integrate yourself to do it. 

Jill: Mm-hmm. You're right.

It's never the right [00:05:00] time to do any of the things. But the right time never really seems to happen, right? And so especially when we talk about recording anything from our loved ones, we don't know when they're not gonna be here anymore. So there's no better time than now. And believe me, I don't have the things in place myself, right?

There's a lot of things I should probably sit down and write down stories from my mother. I wish I would've done it for my grandmother. I can't go back in time and do it for her. But it is really challenging, especially when I know how much time so many of us waste on social media, right? I guess like everything, you have to have a balance.

And so you said New Brunswick, so are you in New Jersey? 

Steve: I'm sorry. New Brunswick, Canada is where my mom is from. Oh. So we were across from the border going up through northern Maine. It was farm country up on the St. John River Valley, and just beautiful country, wide open. And Jill, I said this even when I was a kid, I remember telling my parents, I'd be like, "This...

I don't know what

1956 [00:06:00] was like, but it seems like when we crossed the border and got onto those dirt roads that led out to the farm, I feel like it had to be like something what 19- Mm-hmm ... it kinda still does up there. So that, that's a plus. 

Jill: I didn't know there was a New Brunswick in Canada. I only know the one in New Jersey.

Steve: It's an entire province. It's one of the maritime provinces, and if you go up to the end of 95 in Maine, we'd go further up north on Route 1 for a while, and then cross over the border into Centerville, New Brunswick, and as it was just like time slowed down. 

Jill: Going out to an old family farm on a dirt road, you definitely don't do much of that most places anymore.

My grandmother grew up on a farm, and I wish I could've seen what it was when she was younger, because it was a very different world than I live in now. So you said you started a sports blog, and then it turned into a blog about spirituality? Like, how do you kinda make that transition? 

Steve: I wrote sports stories for kids- Since the late '90s, [00:07:00] early 2000s, and my goal was to just lift up kids, because my motto then is not a whole lot different than it is now, and that was, on the sports world, it was some 10-year-old kid's having the best Saturday afternoon of his life, and I want somebody else to know about it.

That was the whole premise. I encountered a young woman who wanted to be a sports writer. I said, "I'll get the information together if you put this stuff together." She did. She went on to work for Major League Baseball ultimately, which was her dream. And those stories led to parents encouraging me to do a blog, and I said, "I don't even know what a blog is."

I figured that out with some help from some friends back in 2011. My blog is from the hymn How Great Thou Art, and then the blog is just one, the number one, inawesomewonder.com. And it largely was sports articles for years and years and years, with a spiritual flair because it's, I can't really be me and not, and, and be disconnected from that.

Jill: Mm-hmm. 

Steve: As it went on and the responses [00:08:00] I got from people all over the world that were related to some of these kids I was writing about, not even kids on my son's teams, but on the other teams, I was just overwhelmed and made some great connections with people. And it- I've never tried to pursue anything professionally with it, but it became more and more...

Somebody said to me in the last year that I've covered Goffstown Hockey. I'm from Southern New Hampshire. I covered the high school hockey team for the last dozen years, and I write articles, but they're not your normal sports article. They've got stats and things in them, but there's a lot of truth, a lot of how to live life kind of stuff in there.

And somebody wrote to me, said, "This is like a love letter to the, to the people of Goffstown and the sports teams of who they, who they are and who they play." Which I thought was way nicer thing to say about it than I would ever say about it. But I'll take it. So it's kinda led to that, and as I get further in life and as more experiences have happened, and certainly losing so many people on both sides of my family, it's [00:09:00] become a place to put those things too and to share, and it's been...

You know, mostly again, the idea was family, but then it just kinda morphed. It just kinda became... The sense of urgency just changes. All of a sudden you realize, like, my mom's from a family of 10 kids, and as we speak today, there's only three of them left. When I started the book, I think there was, I don't know, seven left maybe.

So it just, just keeps happening. Time keeps rolling, and that's kind of where the pillars of my book came from, and the first pillar is urgency and action, because like you said earlier, we don't know how much time. If we don't get it recorded now, or we don't have that interaction now, there may not be another one, and that's- Yeah

it's not a devastating thing or a despair thing. It's... But it is something we still have the least bit maybe, but still some control over taking action now. 

Jill: Yeah. It is something that I think most people... 'Cause I know you also, like in the email that was sent to me originally when we first connected, I know it talked [00:10:00] about like memoirs and things as well.

And, you know, it's just, I think of how many people have such interesting lives that if they would just write these stories down, even if it was only for their families. I mean, I like to know more about people, like the deeper things about people, not just like the shallow kind of interactions. Like, that's why I really kind of started a podcast, 'cause I like to talk to people and get a little bit more in depth than what I would normally see if I ran into you at, like, ShopRite, right?

Like, we're not- Right ... gonna talk like we do here. So- Right ... I love that. So do you work with people writing memoirs, or like, what's that part of it look like? 

Steve: No, and quite frankly, as this kind of progressed and I wanted to be the self-appointed recorder of some family stuff, which was just between me and myself, the urgency factor kicked it up quite a few notches as you lose people.

So I'm not a... I guess I [00:11:00] am a writer now. I have a book. I don't know. I've done a blog for a number of years. I don't really qualify myself as a title. I try to just be authentic and engaged completely in whatever it is I'm doing at the time I'm doing it, and just continue through that path. But it led to people talking about the idea of it, and I...

So I actually interviewed a bunch of publishers, and I wanted to do something on the Christian side of things because that's my family. That's what I come from. And so I asked my mom, long before this book was even an idea, she was one of the last people I actually told about the book, even though I pummeled her for questions to fact check things as I was going through them.

I asked her if there was one publisher, one company that had the name that would be in the religious background of pastors that were my father and grandfather, what would it be? And she told me it was Zondervan. And so Zondervan did all the Bibles that we ever had in our house growing up. So I interviewed a number of places, including Zondervan, which they have an arm called WestBow Publishing, which is who ended up doing my book.

So I was like, "That's my [00:12:00] goal. Okay, now it's gonna be a book and it's gonna have on the spine a division of Zondervan. That's gonna be like my, a thing for my mom." 

Jill: Mm-hmm. 

Steve: Even though she didn't know at the time. So that's kinda how it all came about. And honestly, even with all that, I'm like, "This is never gonna be a book."

And the marketing person I dealt with that helped me push this over the edge, he said, "Steve, you just gotta remember something." And this is what, your point to talking to people, getting to know the fluff. I hope there's no fluff or shallow with me. I just want it to be real. I want it to be authentic. We don't have enough time to figure out who's telling the truth.

He said, "You are the only person that's lived the life you've lived. You're the only person that had those experience in New Brunswick, Canada like you've had them. You're the only person to have those relationships with those people that came before you, both as a kid and as an adult. So you absolutely are the only person that can write this and put this out there to maybe connect with others."

Mm-hmm. And that became the goal. Connect with people, have it point back to Christ because that's what my family is from. And that was really a huge step to get this over the hump [00:13:00] for me, and to get it into an actual published book. And if I could helping somebody else write, I'm not sure I'm qualified, but I could certainly help somebody tell a good story.

Or actually, this is important too, get into the position to make your own story, to have those conversations with people like you and I are having right now, or like I had with my 76-year-old aunt when I would take her down memory lane to the farm, and then just let her run for three hours talking about stuff, and see her literally come to life- Mm-hmm

with every sentence that was added, because it was a memory muscle that she hadn't used in a long time. And as she used it, it got stronger, more vibrant, more colorful, gave me all kinds of insight, and you just sit and smile, and you're just so happy to be a part of something that was not something that should have fit my schedule, right?

And it's not a me thing. Any one of us can do this. It really just comes, becomes about intentionality. Either you wanna make that difference or you don't. Either you wanna preserve it or you don't. And I'm not saying it's an all or nothing thing, [00:14:00] but you're never gonna be unrewarded by doing it, in my opinion.

Jill: I love that you took your aunt out to the farm and had that conversation, and that's the thing that I see sometimes too with aging adults. There's just, like, a lack of engagement with the world. You know, like, we kind of, as a society, just kinda, like, push the elders into the corner. We don't wanna deal with them.

We don't wanna see them more than we need to. You know, of course that's a generalization. There's some of us that that's not the way, but overall, that's kind of where we've gone now. And this idea of just, like, having a conversation with her and just asking her for stories, how that, like, lights her up and engages with her on a deeper level.

I know sometimes for me, my grandma told me the same stories. When I was really little, she used to tell me bedtime stories, and then even as I got older, you'd hear the same stories, and sometimes you're like, "All right. I've heard that [00:15:00] story so many times." But now she's been dead for 15 years. I don't remember those stories the way that I wish I did, so obviously she didn't tell me enough because I don't remember them.

And so I love that you did that, and I really do hope that anybody listening gets- This opportunity to do that for an aunt or an uncle or a parent or just anybody. And if you have an elderly neighbor, just tell me some stories about your life. What was it like growing up, you know? It's good for them, and I think it's also good for us, because we've lost a lot of that storytelling that it was very natural in humans for all of our existence, and now I feel like we've just lost so much of it because of TV and computers and phones and all the things that kinda keep us very sucked into our own little bubble.

Steve: Yeah, I, I agree. I'm a little bit of a history buff. I love Western American history, or Western North American history for that matter, and the Native American [00:16:00] stories and all those things. And that was all, if you read anything of real good content from back in that day, a lot of it was just literally the handing down of the stories.

Or everybody wrote a diary or a journal, and that was handed down. And those are beautiful things, because you get an opportunity to really get to know that person, like you were talking about earlier. It's funny, because- There's a part of this, uh, you've gotta be intentional. Nobody asked me to do half the things that I did.

Again, this is not a me thing, it's just creating moments where these things could potentially happen. So I have a minivan 'cause I have a lot of kids. So I would drive the minivan to New Brunswick, Canada with my mom in it, and we'd go up there and literally would say, "Okay, Mom, sisters, Mom's double cousins," which I could explain that in the book, but that's basically three brothers from one farm married three sisters from another farm.

All of them had had kids and lived in the same area, so they're cousins on both sides, so [00:17:00] that's a double cousin. Or a half aunt, whatever you wanna call it. Yeah. Either way, I'd get up there and I'm like, "Okay, Mom, who we taking? Let's just, let's pack the van. Let's drive out to the old country, out to the old homestead, and you guys just tell stories.

Start... You sing your hymns." They would almost always there'd be a hymn or two sung, which would lead to a story, which would lead to, "Remember the time we were in the church and this happened, and it was hilarious." And then you go by a stream that they used to play in when they were... I was so fortunate to be a part of that.

I was the only one there not in the generation of all these other people, which is where I coined the phrase generation jumping in the first place back in 2013. But to hear them and to hear them laugh and to hear them be 16 or 18 or 22, where they had their first child and they brought that baby down to the edge of the pasture, it's awesome because the, the part about it too is, and yes, my dad's a big part of the, the last part of the book, and he told me stories over and over again all the time, same ones, as he was becoming less and less [00:18:00] mentally engaged here, unfortunately.

Jill: Mm. 

Steve: I wouldn't trade that. I wouldn't trade anything for, to have those back. To sit at Dunkin' Donuts with him and hear the story I heard 58 times in a row in the last month, I don't care. I'd be sitting with my dad, and that would be awesome. But just like that, having these women tell their stories, and then sometimes they didn't agree that the story went the way it, that somebody told it.

And sometimes they would add on. E- either way, it was beautiful because it just got better and deeper as it went because those muscles, those memories were literally getting back in shape and growing right before my eyes, and it was awesome. So yeah, it was a lot of time, it was a lot of long hours, a lot of long driving, it was a lot of long everything, but would not trade it for the world.

And then that became the urgency to get the book out to save some of those stories, and I can't tell them without my piece, my interaction, and how I felt growing up amongst those people who I call my heroes, which I would've never said as a, as a younger [00:19:00] man. I always felt safe, I felt loved, and we got a lot of stuff done without knowing we were working.

Because we enjoyed it, or it trumped everything else that had to be done, but I wouldn't trade it. 

Jill: Hmm. I love that. So your book itself, is it a storybook about the stories that you were told from your family, or is it more of like a guidebook to help other people also do the same work, or it's a combination of the two?

Like, what's that look like for the book? 

Steve: It's fewer stories told to me, more stories lived with me either being in it or in the background watching, like starting out right at the beginning of the book, my grandmother's funeral when I was 17 years old. 

Jill: Mm. 

Steve: I'll never forget it because it was, you know, I'm 17, what do I know about funerals?

And I thought this is doom and gloom, it's black and gray and dreary and all that stuff, and it was everything but that. It was... I'll never forget it as long as [00:20:00] I live. So that is the prologue. That starts the book off. And yeah, so it's really just more... It, it, it is a memoir I guess, but you know, the thing that was so amazing to me is I got a chance to have these discussions with people, you know, growing up as a kid when we visited, but then I had these adult interactions with them, where I'm literally staying in their homes at times.

I might be staying in one aunt's home while we're looking after another aunt who's in the hospital that we end up coming back up to go to the funeral for. And in the doing of that, I get to know the other aunt better and have a first-hand experience with her. And one of them is also in the book, Marjorie, who was literally facing cancer herself, and I can't...

You can't make this stuff up. Her ability to sit at the kitchen table with me in the morning, most unassuming woman I've ever met in my life, who absolutely made the most fun of herself, too. She was hilarious. But to look me in the eye and talk to me about her pending death coming, knowing she's only got a couple of months, without blinking, without fear, without [00:21:00] loss of humor, without loss of personality, it's amazing.

It's absolutely amazing, and if you sit in that moment and have that conversation with her, I don't know how it couldn't impact you in a better way. It has to, because there's not a fear or a despair or any of that. So that's what this book is for. The core story of the book is hope, because there is a hope.

We are going to die. We are going to lose people. We are going to grieve. The Bible talks about grief. Hope redeems grief, which is a beautiful thing. It doesn't mean we don't feel it. It doesn't mean it doesn't matter. It's very important. I still feel my dad every single day out of nowhere, it just hits me upside the head.

It's been 10 years, and that's okay. That's how it's supposed to go. That means it meant a whole lot to him and to me, but that's not the end of the story. There's a hope, and there's also things we can take action in now to carry those forward, because quite frankly, unless we're somebody famous or somebody wrote a great book about us, a generation or two from now people are gonna be like, [00:22:00] "Who is Jill?

What did Jill do? What did Steve do?" Mm-hmm. And that's okay, too. However, when you're in the moment and we're still alive and that person's gone, those memories, those relationships, and those things we did together- You get to carry those with you for the rest of your days and tell a great story about it.

And I just think that's a beautiful thing. 

Jill: It is a beautiful thing. And I'm curious to hear a little bit more about your experience with your grandmother's funeral, because that's something that I do talk to people about, is when was the first major death in your life? Did you go to the funeral? Did you not go to the funeral?

What is it like? And you said you had this idea that it was gonna be dark and morbid, and then it wasn't. So what was it actually like for you? 

Steve: Her husband, my grandfather, had passed away four years earlier. I didn't go to that. Mom and Dad went up to Canada for that. We stayed home probably with my grandparents on my dad's side, which lived across the street from us growing up.

But in [00:23:00] 1985, when my grandmother died, my mom and dad had to go up early to help run the funeral, prepare for things. So at 17 years old, I drove my three younger siblings up on my own, no GPS, just an atlas I knew where to go because I always paid attention to my dad. I sat behind him in the car all the time, and I watched everything he did.

I watched how he held his hands, I watched where he looked, I watched all those things, so I knew how to get there. But that funeral, w- it was colorful in the sense that people weren't just wearing black. There was, there was just, there was colors. There were autumn colors. It was an autumn funeral, and there was singing of hymns.

My aunt and some of my cousins who had traveled some doing trio, you know, church trios singing. My uncle Lloyd, who's passed since the book, he's gonna be in the second book, no question, 'cause he was, he and I had the best relationship. But he wrote a poem when he was 16 years old to his mother, and he read that poem at the funeral.

I don't [00:24:00] remember all the details of it, but I can't talk about it without getting a lump in my throat, because it was absolutely beautiful. And then there was worship, and I literally thought, and this is covered in the book, I walked out of that service at the end of the service, and I asked my parents. I literally thought I was gonna be in trouble.

I asked my parents if we... Because it didn't feel like, it didn't feel like doom and gloom. It felt like celebration. It felt like any other time our family got together. There was never a drop of alcohol or any curse words or anything like that in either side of my family, but we always had fun. And I just remember asking Mom, I was like, "Is it okay?"

Like, 'cause my brother and a couple of our cousins, we were kinda laughing. Like, we were enjoying this. Like, it, there was some funny things, and I just remember them saying, "No, it's, it's fine. That's, that's how this goes. Th- this is a celebration of Grammy's life." And, you know, and I don't like the throwaway phrase, I, well, I call it a throwaway phrase, of they're in a better place.

I just, to me, that's lazy language. It's the, it's the cop-out language. [00:25:00] While I fully agree that my grandmother was absolutely in a better place- Mm-hmm ... that's not a sentiment that m- takes anybody's loss away from them or the grief away from them. The two things can be both true and not one erase the other at the same time.

But I will say, walking out of there, I was literally checking in with my parents to see, 'cause it seemed like it was too much fun. 

Jill: When I do funerals for people- I try to get some laughs. I want there to be points during the service. Share some of the stories, 'cause that's it. When I basically interview the family of the person who died, I'm talking to their family members, and I'm getting all these different stories.

And inevitably, there's gonna be things about them, stories that are funny, and I want to incorporate that in, because I do feel that joy and sadness can happen at the same time, and that's okay for them to happen at the same time. And so getting a couple laughs during a funeral is okay. Actually, [00:26:00] I strive to do that.

That's like a goal that I have when I write them. And you mentioned, too, like, I grew up Catholic, so I have read the Bible, but it's been a very long time. And in the Bible you said, like, it does talk about grief. And so I'm just kind of curious, like, does it give you, I don't know, suggestions, tips, tools on how to work with grief, or does it just talk about grief being natural?

Like, what does the Bible say about death and grief? 

Steve: Well, this is where I wish my dad or grandfather could answer that, 'cause they know the scriptures better than I do. But I will say this, the shortest verse in the Bible is John 11:35, which is, "Jesus wept." And that's one of his best friends, Lazarus, had passed away.

Now, he ultimately brings Lazarus back to life after grieving, but the grief is real. The sorrow is real. What he went through in the garden before he was pointed out by Judas, before he went to the cross- 

Jill: Mm ... 

Steve: was just [00:27:00] an absolute grief that this cup was not gonna pass from him. He was gonna have to go through this.

And Solomon says in the Old Testament, he talks, "There's a season for everything," and including sorrow and including grief, as well as joy and celebration. So I think it clearly states, though, that this is not a human frailty. I mean, we- Mm ... we are frail because we are human. We are a masterpiece created in His image, but we're still not God, and we still feel, and we still suffer.

And some of us really get caught in that for a long time, and it turns more to devastation and despair, which is something I want to avoid. But it doesn't mean it's not tempting to go there, because it's easy to let go sometimes. But this is why this book is out, is to connect on that other side of the co- of the coin, too, is the hope piece of it.

But the Bible clearly states that it's a real thing. It's not something to be made fun of. It's not something to take lightly. But it is redeemable, like, like every single one of us is redeemable. [00:28:00] Thank God for that, because none of us are perfect. Mm. So that's kinda how I draw on all that. And my dad, which is in the book, I talked about this quite a bit, too- The day of his funeral service, which is at the church he started, which is across the street from my mom's house still, we had a gathering after everybody was gone.

It was just family sitting in the living room that I grew up in, and I'm, Joe, I'm not even kidding you, I laughed so hard that I was crying. Everybody did. But, and my Uncle Paul, who's still alive, who lives close by, he said it, and I think we all kind of said it in our own way, that that little gathering, there's maybe, I don't know, 18 people, 20 people, something, it was, you know, just sitting around, sitting on the floor, sitting on the couch, grabbing chairs, whatever, and just talking.

And that gathering, I think all of us wanted it to be a gathering just as if my dad were sitting there. And had my dad been sitting there, he would've absolutely been egging on the [00:29:00] laughter and going back and forth with his brother Paul, because they're two of the funniest people I ever met in my life.

But we're sad, we're devastated. We just left the funeral service. We're crying in between when we remember moments that touch our hearts and really get to a deeper thing, but then we're laughing, and it's just like that's, to me, that's how it should go. That- Mm-hmm ... that's how life was growing up. That's how it was with him on the earth, in his full capacity.

So why n- why can't you go there? Why can't you honor that? It's not, it, it, it, it's never silly. My, my, my, the humor in my family was never silly. It was very brilliant at times, but it was real. It was authentic, and it was usually about a real thing that happened, and then we just kinda dressed it up a bit to make it a little funnier, but you get the point, and none of us are above it, right?

That's the other thing too, the, the finger could always point back at you, so you just had to be careful where you went. But that, that's very, you know, that's a self-leveling, self-leveling approach to that, which is, which is perfect. 

Jill: I'm [00:30:00] sure your father would have appreciated it, or does appreciate it.

Again, I will fully admit, I don't know what I believe happens to us after we die. There are times when I still feel like my grandmother's presence is still with me, and she's been dead for 15 years. But also, she was very Catholic. I know she thought she was gonna go to heaven, and she was a wonderful human, so if heaven's around, I'm sure she's there.

Maybe she does look down on me, and maybe she can see me, I don't know. So maybe your father was able to witness you and your family laughing and having a good time, and I feel like that's what a lot of us would want though, you know? Well- But I think for the most part, people want you to not be miserable, right?

They want you to, like, feel sadness, but not get stuck in it either. 

Steve: I think that's so misguided that we have to fit a certain expectation that's being set by somebody else, because I can tell you, if you were in that room, we could've been easily crying over something, and then two minutes later laughing.

If you grew up with me and went through the experiences I went [00:31:00] through with my family, that's not far off from how it could've been on any given day at any given gathering. Mm-hmm. Because stuff is real. Stuff is really happening. Stuff hits to the core, and I, you know- Even when I think deeply about what Christ did on the cross and then rose again, and that is the way, the truth, and the life to get to heaven, that, if I sit and ponder that, that brings me to tears because I can't do that for myself.

I can't do it for you. You know, we can't do that for us. So, so what is that? Is that an expectation that somebody else is gonna define for me? No, that's a real thing. By the same token, have the conversation with the person like we're having and spend that time. You go through those things with your aunt, your uncle, your grandparents, and record that history.

Even if you never write it down or share it with anybody else, you're still gonna walk away better for it. 

Jill: Mm. 

Steve: And you're gonna look at things a whole lot different when they're gone. I, I guarantee it. You, you can't, you can't not, especially ... Because, you know, I write in the book too, and I think of this all the time.

I [00:32:00] never thought as a kid, 'cause, you know, kids are ... Well, this kid was not looking too far ahead, but I never thought like, hey, me and my grandparents, me and my aunts and uncles, me and my parents even, and all my parents' friends, we're all gonna be ad- adults at the same time at some point. That never occurred to me.

But then when you get to go and do those things and have those memories, and all of a sudden you're a part of what's going on, a new story, a new generation of story that includes both of us as adults, I don't know, if you get to the end of that and you don't feel any different about it, then I'd argue that you're paying attention to a single thing, because it, it changes you.

It has to. 

Jill: Yeah, that actually is an interesting point that I think I've obviously realized, but I never really thought about. Like, I'm an adult now. My mother's still alive. My kids will eventually be adults too, right? Like, you don't really always think about that. And yeah, I'm sure, you know, there's times when they're not thinking too far ahead either.

I think that's just kids, you know? I [00:33:00] think that's- Well, 

Steve: no, right. I'm 

Jill: not- We are. Yeah ... 

Steve: yeah, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I just think that's the reality, and we, you know- Mm-hmm ... we're very much in the moment now when we're kids especially. And as we get older and a little more mature and figure ourselves out, that changes some, I'm sure.

Certainly it does as w- as we have loved ones that we hold very dear who are going through either difficult times or we lose them altogether. But what, Jill, what, what example are you setting for your children by being an adult with your mother at the same time and taking that action? What example am I setting for my children as I'm an adult with these people and going and do these things?

And again, I stress this is not a me thing. This is available to anybody who wants to just take some intentional action with a little bit of urgency, and just build it. None of this was planned. It was all spontaneous, and it was all tremendously rewarding. But the example that we're leaving is something that I never really thought about in any of those moments [00:34:00] over a course.

That book, the book runs from basically 2008 to my dad passing away, which was 2016, so it's only an eight-year span, and there's been a lot more since, unfortunately, including my younger brother. So there's a lot more to come as far as book stuff goes, but the example is not what I write in the book. The example is the actions that we take while we're still here and have some control over how that looks.

Jill: Hmm. And I do sometimes, you know, my kids are, let's see, I have to think, 12 and 15 now. And of course, with me talking so much about, like, death and dying, it- it's just part of our everyday conversation. And there are times when I'll say, "You know, we're gonna go to Grammy's tonight," and it's like, "Oh, I don't want to.

You know, I was supposed to play a game with my friends." And I'll straight up say to them, I'm like, "Look, we don't know how much longer Grammy's gonna be around, so, like- Come to dinner at Grammy's, because I can tell you that I wish I would've done more of these things when I was younger with my grandmother, because now she's not here, and I can't get that time [00:35:00] back.

But I do try to be aware. Like right now, we had to reschedule our time because my mother had a knee replacement, and I'm taking her to doctor's appointments, and we're picking her up, and we're bringing her to our house so she can have dinner with us, right? And I try to be very aware of the energy that I bring to it when I do it, right?

Like, it's not an inconvenience, even though it kind of is, but, like, it's part of life. Right. Like, I had to reschedule a bunch of stuff this week. But in the long run, it's not an inconvenience to go pick my mother up and to take her where she needs to be. Right. And I hope that my kids... Actually, my daughter did say to me when I told her I had to go help Grammy take a shower, and she was like, "You do?"

And I was like, "Well, yeah. Like, she just had surgery. I can't let her get into the shower by herself." And she said to me, "Well, when you're old, I'll help you take a shower, too." And I was like, "Okay. Well, thank you," right? But that is the thing. How we treat our elders is teaching the younger generations [00:36:00] how they're gonna treat us one day.

And so we really should, not that we should do it for our elders with only that in mind- Right ... but it's definitely part of the conversation that does need to be had, is that what we're doing now sets up the next generation for how they're gonna take care of us when we age. 

Steve: That's why I had six kids, 'cause I'm gonna get old and somebody's gotta take care of me.

No, but honestly, that, it's a really good point. I would even suggest to your kids, tell them, you know, listen, I didn't wanna go see my grandparents when I was 16 or 17 either most of the time, 'cause, you know, just life is, like, going faster than that. But, and I do this with my kids and I have for years- Go to Grammy's and ask Grammy one of two questions.

Ask Grammy, "How was my dad when he was my age?" 

Jill: Mm. 

Steve: And then usually you can get some good stories that at least creates a laugh and a little bit of engagement. And the other question is, "Grammy, what did you love when you were [00:37:00] my age? What were your favorite things to do when you were a teenager in high school?"

Or whatever the age is. 

Jill: Mm-hmm. 

Steve: And it just cha- but really what you're doing is taking it off of self and inviting somebody else in. And I always think that, you know, the best part of humility, which we all need to be better at, in my opinion, is that we just gotta get out of ourself and, and, and have that vested interest in who we're dealing with, whether it's our job, whether it's a person, whether it's going to visit Grammy, whatever it is, because you're gonna get more out of it that way, and it's gonna be way more rewarding and way more engaging.

And so kids don't wanna go. Say, "Hey, listen, why don't you ask Grammy about how I was when I was your age?" Yeah. You might get a juicy story out of it or something, and all of a sudden everybody's like, "Oh, I wanna talk to Grammy more," you know? So that's not a bad thing. 

Jill: You're right, that's not a bad thing.

And I'm even thinking now for, like, birthdays. You know, like, when we sit around and we do the birthday cake and everybody's sitting around the table, why not just share one story that we [00:38:00] remember from when we were that age, right? 'Cause I can remember, you know, 15 turning 16 pretty well, and I'm sure my mom does, too.

And there's probably a lot of stories that I don't know from her that, you know, hearing her tell me and the kids would be really nice. So maybe I'll try that next birthday, just have us all share a story, 'cause my son'll be 16 and my daughter'll be 13. And I'm like, oh my gosh, time is flying by, that is for sure.

Steve: Yes. My youngest two are twins, and they just turned 16 last month, so they just are new drivers, so stay out of the Northeast. They're pretty good. But, and Jill, I think that what you were just talking about with birthdays and things like that, that's also gonna be something that strengthens your mother.

It's gonna strengthen her memories, and I still learn things from talking to my mom. I'm fortunate enough she's still here. I drive a lot of miles from work, and I check on her on my... While I'm on my route, I always call her and check on her and just talk to her, and I learn something- Mm-hmm ... new probably or a couple times a week [00:39:00] because her memory is- Yeah

getting stronger. They, or it leads to a situation or a scenario that she maybe she hasn't thought about in years, or certainly shared it, and I love that. I hear a lot of things that I've already heard, but that's okay. That's part of the course, you know? Mm-hmm. But if you pick up those things and reinforce the memory for her, and it's- It, it really is a lot more joy than it is anything else.

Jill: Yeah, when I lived in California, when I would walk to work, I worked in a restaurant, so I would get to work at 3:00, right? 'Cause that's the way we work in restaurants. So when I would walk to work, I would always call my grandma's house, and my mom would always be there because they're three hours different in New Jersey.

So it would be like, you know, 5:00, 5:30 when I would be walking. So my mom would be there, and I would talk to both of them on the phone, and I don't remember anything that we specifically talked about, but I remember those conversations. I remember spending that [00:40:00] time talking to my grandmother and my mother on the phone just about whatever it was.

Yep. And especially when my mother's gone, but even now that my grandmother's gone, I do really look back on that time and think how grateful I am that I had that time talking with them. Right. Even though I can't specifically remember what the conversations were, that's not always the point. 

Steve: That's not necessarily the point, and I'll point out again, and I think this is so true, Jen, the life we live today and the society we have today, you are not enveloped in yourself during those conversations.

That was conversations that were outside of you, and I'm not saying that we are selfish or any- You know, we all are in our own way, but I feel that the more time we spend outside of our own space like that, the better experience we're having. Even if we're just out in the woods and you're focused on trees, and not tripping over roots, and what bird is that, and what...

Did something cross my path? I mean, all those things. They're outside of ourselves, and once we get off of [00:41:00] ourselves, I just think the world just opens up- Yeah ... and becomes a much more enjoyable place, people or plants. 

Jill: Yeah. And sometimes I like plants better than people, not because I don't like people.

But I like the solitude, like you mentioned earlier on, you know, when you're, like, alone and it's quiet and you can just kind of think a little bit more clearly. So yeah, I have a big garden, and it's partially because I love to just be outside, because where I'm at in Jersey, it's very densely populated, you know?

Like, I could see my neighbor's house from here, and I could hit it with a rock if I had one. Like, we're that close to our neighbors. But I do have most of my lawn is now garden, and we actually did for spring break go up to New Hampshire. It was the first time I'd ever been up there. 

Steve: Um- Really? 

Jill: Oh, yeah. It is very different.

I did all the driving, 'cause I like to drive. Once we got to a certain area, it was like the highway turned into just a two-lane road. Mm-hmm. And there's nothing but trees, and I was like, "Oh, [00:42:00] wow." I was like, "This is a very different world." We were in Freedom, New Hampshire. 

Steve: Okay. Yeah. 

Jill: Oh my God, it was adorable.

It was like the cutest little town, and like I just... I loved it. I thought it was amazing. But it is very different than where I live now. Yeah. I do try to get that outdoor nature as much as I can, even in the small little section that I have, because I just find it's like- This sense of peace, and for me, that's probably where I connect with God, whatever you wanna call it, right?

Like, I feel something greater than me when I'm outside and I'm touching plants, and I got my hands in the dirt. And so I just love it. 

Steve: There, there's a reason for that. I mean, honestly, y- you look at Genesis, man was created from dust and woman from man's rib. So there's a connection. There's a thread through all of us in that regard.

And all my family, so many of them being farmers, and farmers I've known, I've never known a farmer not to believe in God, because you can't produce the things. Like, [00:43:00] you can put a seed in the ground and do the things that you're told to do to bring it to life, but we're not really bringing it to life, you know?

Yeah. But being in those moments, it's careful. It's intentional. It takes time. You can't rush through it, or it's not gonna be a garden. It's gonna be dirt that used to have stuff in it. Yeah. So there's a therapy in that. There's a connection in that, and it's good for us. And it slows down the mind. It's not being entertained.

It's actually being creative, and you're sorting through things. For me, I love being in the woods, just walking in the woods or just sitting in the woods and listening to and watching all the life around me. 

Jill: Mm. 

Steve: Just brings everything down, and we need that. We need that a lot. 

Jill: We were supposed to go camping this weekend, but it got rained out, and I was very sad.

But I did spend basically all weekend taking all my indoor plants outside, except for these for my pretty background. So at least I was able to do that, but I was so looking forward to being, like, in the woods and camping. But I can't- Yeah ... control the weather [00:44:00] either, and we really needed the rain, so I can't.

Steve: Yeah, we were pretty wet this weekend too here in New Hampshire, but my wife spent most of the day yesterday- Doing the same thing you were doing. Getting the plants out, putting them in the ground, setting up the stakes and all the stuff that she wants to grow, and it's a long day. Gonna- Mm-hmm ... definitely feeling it a little bit today.

But it's a great, it's a great way to spend some time. 

Jill: I agree. And we actually are just about at the end of our time. So if people want to find you, find your blog, find your book, I'll put links in the show notes so you don't have to, like, spell things. But just tell us where people can reach you and find you and all the things that you've done.

Steve: Steve Beale Sr., stevebealesr.com is the place that's kind of a landing page for the book and some of the ministry. And the real place that the most stuff is, is at oneinawesomewonder.com. And it's got, you can read some hockey stuff, some baseball stuff, and you can read some Resurrection Hymns stuff.

There's all kinds of stuff in there, but it, it's [00:45:00] not a bad place to end up, I don't think. 

Jill: I love that you have that little bit of everything in there, 'cause again, you're right. And, like, it's part of you, you know? That's the thing. We can't hide parts of ourselves. We just need to show up and be us, and if people like it, they like it, and if they don't, then they won't read it, and that's okay, too.

Steve: Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much for having me, Jill. I really enjoyed talking to you. 

Jill: Thank you for taking your time today. It was a lovely conversation.