From Older to Elder: Dr. Marc Cooper on Wisdom, Legacy & Facing Death Fully

Dr. Marc Cooper is the founder of The Contemporary Elder Institute and author of the book  Older to Elder: The Thinking and Being of a Contemporary Elder

In this episode, he shares how embracing growing older can lead to wisdom, freedom, and profound healing. In this powerful conversation, he explains the difference between simply aging and stepping into elderhood, a role that brings meaning, spiritual growth, and legacy.

At nearly 80 years old, Dr. Cooper calls himself an “Elder for Our Times.” He believes that talking openly about death helps people live more fully. From his viewpoint as an elder, he sees a growing shift in awareness about dying, grief, and end-of-life planning. Instead of fearing aging or death, he encourages others to use these natural processes to deepen their understanding of life.

He reflects on how growing older gives people the chance to let go of the past, make new choices, and develop a new sense of purpose. Unlike being “older,” which society often sees as useless or in decline, being an “elder” means offering wisdom, holding space for others, and guiding with compassion. Elders, he says, have earned the right to speak freely, think deeply, and live authentically, without worrying what others think.

In cultures that honor their elders, aging is viewed as a valuable asset. But in today’s society, aging is often hidden or feared. Dr. Cooper explains that this fear comes from a culture focused on staying young and making money. He challenges that mindset, teaching that death is not the enemy, it’s a powerful teacher. When we face death, we become more alive. We learn to let go, love more deeply, and focus on what really matters.

He ends with a reflection on legacy. He invites others to imagine what they would write on their tombstone and live today with that in mind. Dr. Cooper now teaches others how to become elders, helping them use death and aging as tools for conscious living and healing.

Engage with Marc on Substack: https://drmarcbcooper.substack.com/

Learn more about Older to Elder: https://www.requestingwisdom.com/

Learn more about Marc, the Author: https://www.drmarcbcooper.com/

Transcript

Marc: [00:00:00] An elder develops a different relatedness to death. You're more alive if death were around because you appreciate more and you might go more. 'cause death is right here. Death becomes a teacher. 

Jill: Welcome back to seeing Death Clearly. I'm your host, Jill McClennen, a death doula and end-of-life coach. Here on my show, I have conversations with guests that explore the topics of death, dying, grief, and life itself.

My goal is to create a space where you can challenge the ideas you might already have about these subjects. I want to encourage you to open your mind and consider perspectives beyond what you may currently believe to be true. In this episode, Dr. Mark Cooper, founder of the Contemporary Elder Institute and author of Older to Elder Shares, what it means to consciously embrace the journey of aging.

At 80 years old, Mark describes himself as an elder for our times. Sharing powerful insights on how aging, when embraced with intention, can bring [00:01:00] freedom, healing, and wisdom. In our conversation, we explore how consciously facing aging and death can deepen our connection to life, spark spiritual growth, and inspire a meaningful legacy.

Dr. Cooper invites us to reimagine aging, not as something to fear. But as a sacred opportunity for reflection, compassion, and authenticity, he reminds us to live each day as part of the legacy we're creating. Thank you for joining us for this conversation. Welcome, Mark to the podcast. I am so happy to have you on today.

I appreciate you taking the time out. And if you wanna start us off, tell us a little bit about who you are, where you come from, anything you wanna share. 

Marc: I've given myself a title and you know, everyone has that name, whatever that name might be. And then there's a meme or a slogan underneath that captures everything.

So my title is Elder for Our Times. That's who I am at this moment in my life and my growth and my age, all of that, I bring [00:02:00] that. That's who I am now. I also think you're doing good work, making a conversation about death. Public makes life public and not life lived. Life that is not being lived also public.

It's the boats are all rising from an elder's viewpoint, looking out of the horizon and all the boats. The death, dying, meditate. The whole world is beginning to shift to a higher consciousness. I'm old enough now to recognize that phenomenon. That's what elders do. They can see that the water doesn't just look like water through sailors.

You're the host. Host me, 

Jill: if you don't mind telling us. How old are you? 

Marc: I will be 80 on April 29th. I was born before the end of World War ii. Days later, the war ended in on the Japanese side, their surrender. Oh my birthdate. There was an English released DAU encampment. There was a lot of momentous things [00:03:00] that occurred on that day.

People could use AI and say, what happened on my birthday? All the way back in history, and there's some heritage that could be at least looked at from the possibility. Oh wow. That's why I was put here. 

Jill: Hmm. Interestingly enough. I actually did interview somebody on my podcast that was in Docal. He is 96 right now.

That was a tough conversation. It was beautiful. It was amazing. I'm so grateful for him. But man, that was some crazy times. I love those little connections where I'm like, oh, look at this, and now here we are having a conversation. 

Marc: You know, iron gets forged in the fire. That's where he was. He was in the fire, so I would love to hear what he said.

Yeah, he had nothing to hide. He's fully authentic. At 96, you have let go of everything that you cared about before. So the beauty of growing old is you don't have to be your past. You have choice at that moment if you are able to see. [00:04:00] Do I wanna keep that when I get old? Have you ever moved from house to house and remember, oh yeah.

Pull things out that you don't know why you kept them, and you just have to drag them around in boxes. I think there's a permission that you give yourself as you age. That's really freeing. I. 

Jill: And when do you think for you at least because I'm 46, so I'm getting to that age where I'm starting to give myself permission to let go of some things that I no longer need.

That seemed so important when I was younger. Now, not as important. Was there an age for you? Was there almost like that tipping point where you were like, oh, now this all makes sense? Or is it just always an ongoing process of. Learning and aging and growing. 

Marc: So there's a certain point, I believe, where you begin to displace some of the things that you thought were true because they no longer are.

And that's a struggle because you were brought up that the truth held a certain accuracy and gave you a certain [00:05:00] amount of control the way life worked. And then you discover that it's not true all the time. That's what the forties and the early fifties are about. Okay. Maybe that's not so anymore, you start to have a, an existential question about, you know, how does it feel to get, now, you know, you're getting old too.

It's, it's beginning, you know, the mirror does not lie. Come on. But then you can start to use that natural process, which you call the natural process of aging, rather than as a detriment. You can use it as a enhancer. There's certain things that are now available that have never been available before, but your age brings you to that place where choice is now more able to be done.

You're able to go, you know, maybe that wasn't useful. Maybe I can stop that. So a lot of the patterns and trends from up until your forties, that's when people change jobs and careers and get divorces. [00:06:00] All that stuff happens, you know, it's an exciting time, but it's good. Most people takes the path of aging, got older, not too elder, and you have choices to make as you go.

It's almost obsessive, I would say, or fanatical, but it's so true for me. If elders were held in the world as elders in our world and our USA as elders, uh, if they were at the table, if they could have people listen, it just wouldn't look this way. And elders are shunted out. So the job for me is, okay, I have to go break walls, but I like breaking walls.

So this is what I do. 

Jill: You said older versus elder? In my brain, that makes sense to me. I'd never really thought of it that way. Right? Because I feel like I am aging and society is viewing me as older, right? Especially as a woman, right. I'm getting gray hair, I've got more wrinkles, like things are just not where they used to be when I was younger.

[00:07:00] And so society kind of, I think puts this label of like, you're old, you're older, but then there is a lot of cultures that. View the elderly as elders, as wise, as people like you said, that we should bring to the table and use their wisdom and use their knowledge. So to you, what's the main difference between an older and an elder?

Marc: I'll begin with the words themselves. For me, everything begins with language. So, okay, so what does al mean and what does alter mean? So that what you have it mean determines how you behave accordingly. I define older, the way the culture defines older, which is obsolete, potent, useless, not contributory cost money.

Ultimately they need to be warehoused. You know, if you go down the cultural route, you could, but then there's the path of elder. It's a traditional path. Al [00:08:00] is just time path, but it has no ancient to it. It has no ancestors to it. It's just older. But elder has a more. Spatial and spiritual history. And so when you look at all the tribes that have been around forever and you spend time with them and you be with elders, you see there's a certain persona, a certain element, certain quality of being that's available to the community that they're serving.

They're elders. And elder is your folder. And so people in our culture, because we make, you know, 20 billion a year off of China to not get old, if behooves the capital society, push back against aging. That's why capitalism works. If you could stay young forever, you push your money in there, water to the fish, you know, it's like, oh, I'm in a capital world.

Everything's gonna be commercialized. My God. 

Jill: Yeah, 

Marc: I think it, people forget if they follow the route of [00:09:00] what everybody says about aging. They'll age like that. Can you get to a level where you can make your own choices? I'll call that the distinction between older and elder elders can make their own choice, and that's really powerful and that's freedom, by the way, I would say are more free and more self-expressed because they don't have to worry about what's coming back.

And that's fine too. There's a special quality about Elderhood and tolerance goes way up. At least for me it does. It's like, well, and people are people, and you realize you're one of them and you go, oh yeah, I've been one of those and I've been one of those, and I'm certainly been one of those. And you start to loosen up around people like, oh, okay.

And the other part for me, elder has a higher consciousness that is required. And you, if you take on the role, if you work at it and do the disciplines that come with elderhood and you have a capacity, you have to develop a capacity. This [00:10:00] is the hard part, I think. So here's this whole world of older, the crept unable to adverbs and adjectives that can be thrown at it.

You, you are there. An elder has to have a capacity. To not be sucked into. And that's difficult because everybody else is, you can't go anywhere where that is not a part of the gossipy conversation that occurs. And then you have friends that you haven't seen in 20 years and you look at them and they got old when no one says anything about that.

You don't talk about aging as a benefit. You talk about it as a cost, and that's harmful. You talk about death as a cost, not a benefit, particularly in our culture. Is the boogeyman. An elder develops a different relatedness to death. And because you, you were so accurate in your intro about being more available, aliveness, I'll use that word, being more available in your life, you're more alive if death were around because [00:11:00] you appreciate more and you let go more.

'cause death is right here. It's like, what am I gonna take that with me? And so death becomes a teacher. This is what I'm gonna take with me. I did a course this week and I asked them to introduce themselves with just their name and what they would write on their tombstone. What would be that expression to begin there.

'cause that's where I wanna begin with the people I'm working with As an elder, I'm training elders to be elders. So having them look from the end first. Wow. Damn. What does that say? Who am I? Who am I? Then I would say that in one sentence or five words. Interesting responses. Yeah. We have people to come and work with us from time to time who are reverend and have been in the death trade for a long time.

So Jefferson and Kara and a few other other people, we asked to come and join us in a group. Let's talk about it, and they talk about it from their experience and what it's [00:12:00] like. So we keep the conversation alive. And public without fear and fear will come, it will always come. It's part of the package.

Death is certainly a collaborative partner in having life work for elders and being able to speak from that, that void of, well man, you all gonna die and you don't think you are. You, you pretend. When if, if you know it's going to happen and what you're afraid of, may not be legitimate, may be urban legend, could be something that you don't know.

I'll do a little bit of this, if you don't mind. 

Jill: Sure. 

Marc: So what, what brought you to working on death? What was that call like and how did you hear that? 

Jill: Yeah, I think I've always heard the calling, even when I was a child. I just didn't realize that that's what it was. I was always fascinated and interested.

With death and dying and the whole process. Taking care of my grandmother at the [00:13:00] end of her life was what brought me to the work because I realized how unprepared all of us were. Nobody talked about it. The doctors didn't talk to us about it. Nobody her prepared us. I knew she was going to die. It's not like I was in denial of that.

I think I just didn't understand the realities of what death actually was going to be. It seems like it was just gonna be like it was on tv. People lay there, they're peaceful, they close their eyes, sun shining in the room, like the whole thing. That was not my experience, and so I realized that there was a need to do this work.

The more that I started learning about it, the more that I started talking to people, the more that I realized it's a whole. World of death denial in our culture and that we really needed to have more conversations, which is how I started the podcast. Part of my education really is around getting people to [00:14:00] talk about death and dying and getting okay with it because I found that I live my life better.

I was okay with the fact that one day it was gonna end and it actually has helped me. Being more comfortable with aging because just understanding that this is part of the process and that I'm 46 and I'm still alive, that's an accomplishment. Not everybody gets to this age, and so if I have the wrinkles, if I have the gray hair and people don't like it, oh well, it doesn't matter.

So it really shifted and changed the way that I lived my life. If we could all be okay with the fact that we're gonna die one day, I think a lot of the problems in the world would maybe settle down. And I think some of the anti-aging stuff is this denial that we're gonna die. It's like if I stay looking young, if I stay feeling young, that means I'm not gonna die when really.

That's not how it works. Like you said, it's not if, it's when. 

Marc: So what I am enjoying is that when people move [00:15:00] into the path of elder mm-hmm. They have to unload their past to their identity. That came up to that point. And then they hear a calling and the calling isn't what they had to do to make a living.

And I can hear in your voice that you were called to do this, that was obvious to access your own individual sacred. Higher purpose who you are and live through that vehicle. That would not only get what you're talking about done, which is death would be a at the table as opposed to wherever you put him or her.

And there would be a different camaraderie. The DA different relationship, a whole different world. So you're working on the right things. Death. Death is here. Yeah. And I just want, you know, there's other. Parts of this that I believe besides death, the question is to develop higher wisdom. You know that most of the people I work with are pretty wise, but it's conventional wisdom, and that means they're really good at [00:16:00] what they did to be successful and that conventional wisdom work, they could get predictory, they could see the elements more clearly.

They could move the pieces around to get it resolved. They figured that reality out. But then they get to understand that reality disappears. You are old in this culture. That is not going to change. So if people think you can now put old people in ads and make people feel better, old is old in this culture and it is not going to change.

Who I am has to choose whether that's worthy of my time or is there something else that's possible. Because this does not feel good for me. This doesn't grow me. This doesn't acknowledge me. This doesn't support me. This just doesn't work. And is it true or is it made up closely at the difference between older and elder?

Older? [00:17:00] It becomes a thing that has characteristics and qualities and edges and decay over time. But elder isn't a thing. It's more a way. That I could be in life, who I be, Hmm, do do I have a choice in that? Even with this going on, my answer is yes. And so that's the work to move people from all of that and who they thought they were and death is part of this, but they also understand that there's wisdom inside that they have enclosed conventional wisdom was the only way to win.

And now that's not winning anymore. That game's over. So, where do I go? You can't go outside anymore because you used all that up. So you gotta go inside. So an elder spends a lot of time looking inside and trying to figure out how this, he put this thing together so you become more a witness of yourself.

Oh yeah, I can see that. And the more I [00:18:00] understand that, uh, responsibly how I did that, not denying it, the more able I am to be with other people because. That's just me. 'cause I see those parts of me. So Elder becomes more universal in terms of their relationships. Everybody is, and I can't say that I'm a joyous person to be around, but I'm a safe person to be around.

And that's, you know, people when they're with me now are in a certain way with me. And that's actually what I always wanted, that kind of. Relationship with people where you don't talk social stuff, where politics is not important. Where human being is the highest value, but not human being, like just life itself, human being is what it could be.

Then what are they working on? 'cause if they're working on that, that's the person I wanna talk to. Hmm. So, yeah, I think I'm enjoying being an elder. I think you might tell. [00:19:00] 

Jill: Yes. I. And that's wonderful because I'm not there yet, even though I'm kind of like on that cusp. 

Marc: One of the things that I think is interesting about death, where people freak out is not the end of existence and all that stuff that may come up for people, it, it's underneath that is their inability to be with uncertainty.

You know, they can't live into mystery. They gotta know, or they gotta have that control. They have to figure it out at some point. What an elder knows is you can't figure it out. And why would you, what is that going to give you? If you figure it out? Is that gonna enhance the quality of your life? Is that gonna change Who you are is not gonna make peace in the world.

What's that going to do? And so there's a whole different little perspective in life that you have as an elder, which is the gift. 

Jill: Yeah. Yeah. And that sense of control, it's not real anyway, right? We try and we try and we try to figure things out and we wanna plan and [00:20:00] schedule and it never works. All it does is let us down and then we try to control the people around us.

'cause we think controlling the people around us will be the solution and. And it just leads to a lot of problems, I believe. 

Marc: Take it one step further. The situation and conditions I'm living in now beyond the people, I can't control any of that. Mm-hmm. That flow. Everybody outside of me is uncontrollable.

And then you get to be okay with that. As an elder, that is kind of a gift because now I'm not invested and I'm not righteous. That's the way they wanna go. That's the way they wanna go. How do I want to go? How do I wanna go? The more I can put myself as the responsible agent for my life, the better off I am.

Jill: Yeah. And that's where I want to be. And I'm getting there to be that person that. Understands all of that. There's times when I get a [00:21:00] taste of it, and then there's other times when there's still the part of me that's like, I don't know. Fearful is not really the word. Controlling is not really the word, I guess just human.

But I hope that I will get more and more at a place of peace. Maybe 

Marc: you can't have something without the other thing. Everything exists as a duality. So when I'm working on one of these, which is internal, by the way, hardest work to do, best results. Stay here. You're in the right lane When things come up that aren't the way you anticipate.

A lot of things are going on. Expectations are unfulfilled. An expectation is really interesting because you expect it. This is what I'm talking about, uncertainty. People are expecting everything to be a certain way and when it's not. There's a lot of unrest. I think you and I are experiencing it this moment in time.

So what do we do with that unrest? How do I be in a place where everybody's unrestful? What's my response here? [00:22:00] Is this gonna make any difference at all? There's a different level of self-questioning that occurs as an elder, which is much more sage because it includes it all rather than just specific pieces is a wholeness to the, oh, I see.

That's what's this and what's that? And a curiosity, the kind of curiosity an elder has, I think is the most fun because we know, we don't know. Ooh, we just don't know. We don't know that we don't know, and we're so okay with that. That is so perfect. If you didn't have to know what would life be like if you really didn't have to know what would life be like?

And others have that little playfulness in it. There's all discovery. It becomes discovery and curiosity and like, well, that's really helpful as you age, is to have that view of aging that give yourself permission to do that. 

Jill: I like not knowing, actually, I enjoy life more sometimes when I'm curious and [00:23:00] I'm open and just not so set in my believing something to be true, more open to learning new things, and so I do enjoy that.

I'm hopeful as I age and become an elder that. I will continue to be that way. I love talking to people though, and I love talking to people about interesting things like I think you kind of mentioned about like the gossip and like the hanging out and talking about nothing. That's really interesting.

I'm gonna have the real conversations. See, these are the conversations I wanna have. Let's all have a dinner party so we could have these conversations, but we don't see it all the time. 

Marc: No, you can't. This is perfect. So everything's a duality. So I am on the Myers Briggs, I'm an INTJ. Misnomer for me, that's not even touches my surface.

I am so happy being alone. I love solitude. That's just who, who I, and, and that's where I, what I seek. And so every time I went out socially and we had those [00:24:00] conversations, for me it was sandpaper. Mm-hmm. And I didn't know how to talk into that or be with that without falsifying who I really am as an elder.

I don't falsify myself. There's no need to do that anymore. This is a gift to be able to be with people and make fun of them For me, it's like you really believe that stuff. Okay. That's good for you. It is good for you. And if they ask me questions, I'm happy to answer, but I'm not behind any veils anymore.

So this, this is this. I'm old. What are you gonna do? If you can keep your health, so this whole deal with lifespan and healthspan actually true, most people will live to a hundred who were born here. CA certain period of time medicine is gonna be AI run and so it's not gonna make the stupid mistakes and it's not gonna cost much.

The future for getting old is really good. The, the things that are coming out to address the problems of aging where you don't lose [00:25:00] responsibility for your own life. You don't feel like it's being done to you or becoming available. If isolation is one of the greatest causes of death, which it is, the feeling being alone, that will be handled by ai.

They're working on it right now, and you'll be wearing external monitors enough to inform them about your health in the moment. Then there will be other elements around you that also recommend diet from your everyday chemistry data. This is gonna be an amazing time. My advice to people is, one of the things about Buddhism that I really honor and respect is it ask the most basic questions and has the most basic definitions of how life works.

Was it all true? It's one of the things to be considered when you're thinking about aging. What are those principles? The one that is most endearing to me is impermanence. Nothing lasts, but then you look into [00:26:00] the Bible and Christ said the same thing. He said, nothing lasts, so nothing lasts, and that includes the cells in your body.

When you actually embed the concept of impermanence, then the things that you had to be right about no longer have the importance because it's impermanent. Where's Rome now? It's all good. They're, we're coming to a moment in the existential sphere of life around the planet. Mm-hmm. And it'll be interest to see how it unfolds.

Will we become the next Rome? And what were they thinking and what were they talking about? This is a such a quintessential moment in time. And you're here to witness it. Mm-hmm. And I know I'm working with people now to have them be in this situation to reduce significantly the anxiety fearfulness. And trepidation.

I am the victim of people doing it to me. So we have a [00:27:00] persecutor, the DA model is coming together and who's gonna rescue me? You don't see a rescuer on the horizon, so it keeps the victimhood more pulsating. But I see the rescuers coming slow but steady. And the question is, how do I participate without putting myself at risk when that's an individual choice?

I see it and I can feel it. So one of the things that is a gift of Elderhood is able to see further into the past and then further into the future and have that available in the moment to see what's occurring. And that's wisdom and that's the gift of Elder. 

Jill: Yeah, I like that. It is hard right now to be in a place of understanding that everything happening right now around the world.

We've been leading up to it, building up to this. Some of these things need to crumble and fall apart in order for us to birth into this new whatever we're moving into, hopefully, quote unquote [00:28:00] better, right? Hopefully it's better for the larger amount of people, not a smaller amount of people, but also living in it and being here for this moment is exciting and it is scary and it's anxiety inducing, and it's all of the things to kind of sit with it and.

Just know that honestly, nothing's promised except this moment anyway. I might die as soon as we get off this call from some unknown heart condition that happens to people every day. So like at this point, the only thing I have is right now is this moment. I'm gonna try to not worry about the rest of it, but also.

How can you not, especially with having children. So, yeah, I don't know. It's like my, I go all over the place with this stuff. I'm like, but it's nice to talk to somebody that I'm like, Ooh, okay, okay, this is good. 

Marc: 50% of the people are like you, and that's okay. And the other 50% are like them. Um, there's no one different, and that's part of the problem.

The real pain is the loss of our independence [00:29:00] because we're not able to make choices now that we would agree with. So it's being done to us. Some. Our independence is being constricted, and that's really uncomfortable for people. They've always been the one to choose and now someone else is choosing for them, but they are the chooser and they don't know what to choose.

Yet, but it's arising. I, I'm through this. The other part about begging elder is you get old and you've been through decades and you see trends. Now all it's here again, so I'm from the sixties, so this is Vietnam. It's like, oh, okay, they're marching. This is really cool. So you have this going on over here, and now you have this arising.

It's a phenomenon that's always happened. And so you have a relationship to it in a way that's more. Audience and stage, and when people get anxious and righteous about it, you as an elder are able to go, that's okay for you, but I don't have to be that. And [00:30:00] then that changes who they are because they can't get anything from me.

It's just nothing. Again, it's like, oh, okay. It's all good. This whole elder conversation is really important and sacred and wonderful, and needs to occur in the world, and it's not here. It's not in our culture. It's not permitted. You don't have an elder at the table when you make decisions. You just don't do that.

You have ai, you don't have humanity, which an elder brings. Are you making the right decision for yourself in a way that's going to give you more of what you want outta life, or what are you doing? Those are the questions elders would bring that are not asked, 

Jill: and that's what I'm thinking of is, you know, people listening now that maybe have.

Somebody in their family, or maybe they're the person in their family that is the elder or they're somebody like me that's thinking of like, the elders in my family know how you started. You 

Marc: have elder confused with [00:31:00] older. 

Jill: Hmm. True. Yeah. 

Marc: I have these people in my, so that was the distinction that I, that's my calling.

I understand that it's a steep mountain to climb, to have people say that's not what I mean, an elder, I mean a way of being. Mm-hmm. If you sit down with a Margaret Mead or if you sit down with a Picasso, or if you sit down with a Albert Einstein, what kind of conversation would you have? 'cause that's an elder.

Yeah. We don't have the people at the table yet. From my experience, and this may not be true, if we take the whole older population of 55 million that are here in the US today with a 10,000 retired G volume over 65 every day, and we, they go through a pattern dictated by the culture every day, their cost will go up every day to take care of them.

'cause we don't want 'em around. If we could have elder now begin to be heard. Then those conversations that made those [00:32:00] decisions would not have occurred the way they did. Hmm. And there's something that they're missing a huge asset with, which is elder wisdom and higher wisdom. Here's the hard facts for me.

Out of those 55 million people, maybe 20% could become elders. So it's not for everybody. You have to have a curiosity, a determination. Live the strong purpose, be a wonderment about what you can do to heal the world. Have a real interest in changing who you've been. I. Be willing to go through the discomfort of growth if you wanna become an elder, I appreciate that and I teach that wanting to do something beyond yourself, if it's not about healing and repairing the world, if it's not about being that kind of person that people are drawn to for wisdom, not for knowledge, then this is not the path for you.

But I think 20% is the major majority in a change curve, and I think we'll be okay if [00:33:00] I know we have 20%. I hope we have more, but people have to work at this. This is not, oh, I came out of the sky and blessed me. No, I had to go through life to get here and beat the truth about it. So all there is a path.

Some will take it, some will try it, some will make it. For those who do make it welcome, this will. We have a lot of work to do. 

Jill: Yeah. And I wonder how many. Of my generation, right? When we get to being the age of elder, if there'll be more of us, if there'll be less of us, I think about that. Even with my kids' generation, they're 14 and 11.

I had to think about it. You know, they're, they're definitely a little different, some of the wisdom that they have that I don't remember having when I was their age. So it's gonna be interesting to watch as the world. Ages, all the populations continue to age what that will kind of look like. How many people will have [00:34:00] that drive to have the wisdom and the knowledge?

Marc: What you'll begin to notice are things that always happen. That Go on note. Oh yeah, that's a 14-year-old boy. That's all that is. And I have no control. Elder gives you patience, elder gives you appreciation. Elder gives you okay. If that's the way you want it. 'cause I will choose my way. So you become the chooser.

You become the one who makes the decision for yourself. Now, this will not always be this way. I will become dependent. I will have the problems, I will have all that aging brings, but who I am about aging and who I am about going through the process, I'm the chooser. And I think there's a moment that we've got with this particular element, my 20%.

To have an impact on the planet and really 'cause they should be spanked. Yeah, that should be spanked. [00:35:00] No person I speak with once they're grandkid to grow up into this. This is not inner peace. You can't have inner peace if all this is going on around you. Inner peace is in your sight and inner sight is insight.

You can't have that when you have a lot of this stuff going on. Elders would be 11 million people would have a lot of voice and they would, by the way, have a lot of money. If you look at the net worth of older people, it's pretty significant. It's 4400% more than Amazon. I. Make a anything and the US government combined, we have the wealth, but we don't have the voice and we don't have a purpose and we don't have a vision, and we don't have a leader yet to say, Hey man, do you want the world to turn out this way?

And if they say no, then let's fix it. I think that can be done. 

Jill: I think so too. I really do. I'm hopeful that. I'll say it in my [00:36:00] lifetime, but 

Marc: I'll make it happen in your lifetime. I, I take hope out of the equation. 'cause hope means you're hopeless. You're not hopeless. One of the things you'll, you'll, at least I think happens for all the, is that you become, have a greater capacity to own it the way it is.

Oh, okay. So, rather than I hope, hope doesn't generate action, doesn't do anything. You know, I hope to be a basketball player and I turned out to be five six. Those are things you can do, and you know, it's all perfect. You are called to do something special. Go do it and stop all the crap about why you don't have time to do it.

Just do it because if you wait, you'll get older and older and older, and then you'll have regrets and resentments and all the things that people have at the end of their life now as opposed to celebration. 

Jill: I love it so much, and we are coming up on the end of our time, so I'm gonna give you a few minutes to tell us if people wanna reach you, if they wanna work with you, what's the [00:37:00] best way to find you?

Marc: I hide 

Jill: Me too, so I get it. Okay, 

Marc: good. I have two websites that you can go to. One is www requesting wisdom.com, which is the expression from the entity I'm building. Called the Contemporary Elder Institute. We do courses and programs and consulting and all kinds of stuff. We are a social enterprise. Set up as a for-profit company and we give all our money away to nonprofits.

Hmm. Which makes it very healthy for me. I don't have to work for money. Mm-hmm. And that's a freedom that I think the others from my book, older to Elder of the Thinking and being of a contemporary elder available on Amazon and probably every bookstore now, there's an author website, which is by name, www Dr.

Mark B. Cooper. Dot com and then networks like Substack. If you want me, you can get me through LinkedIn or through [00:38:00] Substack. 

Jill: I'll put links to all of it in the show notes so people can easily find it. To your websites. Yeah, and all that stuff. 

Marc: Here's what I want. I've been doing this now professionally, which is really interesting to go through it, you know, at at late age for a a while now I have authority enough to people call me back.

In in the industry. I wanna do some speaking engagements this year. So any of you listeners, if you have an entity that has national recognition, I would like the opportunity to have a conversation either or. I can do it myself or I can do it on panel about what it means to be an elder. 

Jill: Wonderful. Well, I hope that this gets out into the world for you to be able to do more of that because I do think it is needed.

It's a beautiful gift that you have to be able to share that. So thank you. I appreciate you coming on and talking to me today and doing the work that you're doing. 

Marc: I had fun. 

Jill: Wonderful. That's my goal, right? I [00:39:00] want people to enjoy being on the podcast. 

Marc: You, you're perfect. And lastly, I'll just say one more thing.

Elder may not be age related. 

Jill: That's kind of what I'm I. Thinking in my head, but we'll see. Thank you. So 

Marc: thank you again, right dear. Appreciate it. 

Jill: In my next episode, archivist Emily Cais shares how her work preserving historical records, intersects deeply with death, grief, and legacy. Emily describes on an archive, truly is.

It's much more than just a place to store old papers. She talks about the emotional nature of working with the personal records of people who have died, how archivists often form quiet one-sided relationships with the deceased, and how their work can both be healing and haunting. Emily also reflects on a project and involving homicide files.

And how it shifted her view of how society treats death. Particularly the deaths of women listeners will gain insight into how archival work is not only about preservation, but also [00:40:00] about honoring lives, shaping memory, and confronting our own mortality. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or family member who might find it interesting.

Your support in spreading the podcast is greatly appreciated. Please consider subscribing on your favorite podcast platform and leaving a five star review. Your positive feedback helps recommend the podcast to others. The podcast also offers a paid subscription feature that allows you to financially support the show.

Your contribution will help keep the podcast advertisement free, whether your donation is large or small, every amount. Is valuable. I sincerely appreciate all of you for listening to the show and supporting me in any way you can. You can find a link in the show notes to subscribe to the paid monthly subscription as well as a link to my Venmo if you prefer to make a one-time contribution.

Thank you and I look forward to seeing you in next week's episode of Seeing Death. Clearly.