Music, Mortality, and Meaning: The Story of 'Nightside Songs'

In this episode, we are joined by Daniel and Patrick Lazour, the creators of Nightside Songs, and Taibi Magar, the director of its Philadelphia production. Nightside Songs is more than a musical—it’s an immersive and communal experience that explores caregiving, illness, death, and the end-of-life journey. Audiences actively participate by singing, transforming each performance into a shared ritual rather than a traditional stage production.

The idea for Nightside Songs began in 2019. Originally conceived as a book musical, the Lazours struggled to capture the depth of the subject. Their experiences with palliative care and end-of-life conversations led them to rethink their approach, shaping a production that blends music, storytelling, and communal participation.

Unlike a traditional musical with a fixed structure, Nightside Songs is fluid and ever-changing. The Lazours wrote and refined numerous songs, adapting them through rehearsal and live performance. Each show responds to the audience’s energy, making every experience unique and deeply personal. This adaptability creates a space where audiences can connect with themes of grief and mortality in an intimate and meaningful way.

At its heart, Nightside Songs is both a theatrical event and a collective act of remembrance. It brings people together to confront universal experiences—illness, loss, and caregiving—while fostering connection and healing. The cast, a mix of longtime collaborators and new voices, delivers powerful performances that resonate across all backgrounds. In a world where conversations about death are often avoided, this production offers a rare and cathartic space to engage with these realities.

https://philadelphiatheatrecompany.org/night-side-songs/

https://philadelphiatheatrecompany.org/nsstour/

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Taibi: Theater is the exercise of empathy, right? Like you are asked to step into another person's shoes. No other art form does that in such a live and tangible way. 

[00:00:12] Jill: Welcome back to Seeing Death Clearly. I'm your host Jill McClennan, a death doula and end of life coach. Here on my show, I have conversations with guests that explore the topics of death, dying, grief, and life itself.

[00:00:25] My goal is to create a space where you can challenge the ideas you might already have about these subjects. I want to encourage you to open your mind and consider perspectives beyond what you may currently believe to be true. In this episode, I'm joined byDaniel and Patrick Lazour. the creators of Nightside Songs, and Taibi Magar, the director of its Philadelphia production.

[00:00:46] Nightside Songs is more than a musical. It's a shared experience where audiences participate through singing, turning each performance into a communal ritual. Through music and storytelling, the show explores caregiving, illness, grief, and the end of life. Offering a space for connection and healing.

[00:01:04] Inspired by real doctors, hospital staff, and patients, as well as personal experiences with illness, the Lezors crafted a performance that evolves with each audience. Nightside Songs transforms conversations about loss into moments of reflection and togetherness. Join us as we discuss its profound message and how theater can help us embrace life's most inevitable moments.

[00:01:27] Thank you for joining us for this conversation. Welcome to the podcast. So this is a little unusual. I have three guests today. I have Patrick and Danie,l they are brothers. And then I have Taby. Thank you all for being here. And I'll kind of let you explain what you're all doing together. Cause it's probably going to be better for you than for me.

[00:01:48] But if you just want to tell us anything about yourselves, that would be fine as well. And again, I guess we could just take turns a little bit. Patrick or Daniel, if you want to start us off with that and then we'll go from there. 

[00:01:59] Daniel: We're theater makers working on a show called Nightside Songs. It's a theater piece.

[00:02:04] It's a communal. theater experience, so the audience is asked to participate in the, in the show with their voices. It, it's a piece that explores caregiving, death and dying, end of life questions, and celebrates caregivers, nurses, doctors, and patients. We just finished a run of it at the Under the Radar Festival, and we're headed to Philadelphia Theater Company next.

[00:02:30] Jill: Yeah, and that's where I will see you. I'm really excited. So Taby, what is your role in this whole thing? 

[00:02:36] Taibi: Yeah, so I'm the co artistic director of Philadelphia Theatre Company and the director of Nightside Songs, basically. So we've been developing the project together for, I don't know, we started talking about it in 2018, 2019 when Cairo, this other show we worked on was going up.

[00:02:54] When Tyler Dabrowski, my co artistic director and I got the job at PTC. It's one of the first. pieces we thought about bringing to Philadelphia. We're thrilled to be bringing this piece to Philly and buoyed by a really informative and meaningful run in New York. We're excited to bring it back to this wonderful city.

[00:03:14] Jill: Well, I am so excited, but I'm definitely really curious. This is certainly not Something you see often. People that listen to my podcast are probably pretty comfortable talking about death and dying because you know, again, they're listening to a podcast about death and dying. So when Tamara reached out to me during the summer and was like, there's going to be this play coming to Philadelphia about somebody that's dying and their caregivers and we want people to help kind of support.

[00:03:41] You know, if somebody in the audience has a little bit of a reaction, and I was like, first off, this is amazing. But what where did this come from? It's just so unusual and such a difficult topic. How did you even decide that this was something that you were like, you know what, we're gonna take this on and create this whole thing.

[00:04:00] Patrick: I think we sort of fell into it. Actually, I think we read this book called The Death of Cancer by Dr. Vincent DeVita. And then after that, that sort of led us down the path. And we read this Pulitzer Prize winning book, Emperor of All Maladies. And from these books, we were like, Oh, this is really, really interesting.

[00:04:18] The birth of chemotherapy, the history of cancer is such an interesting topic. We'd love to write a show about it, sort of a classic musical, what they call like a book musical. As we were writing it, we weren't really feeling it. We weren't quite getting to the truth of the matter. Simultaneously, Daniel and I were dealing with two people very close to us who were going through the illness experience in palliative care and the death and dying process.

[00:04:43] And we realized that so many of these conversations with our family were sequestered in hospital rooms and bedrooms and all of these things. And we're like, this is so wild. It's such a secret. And yet everyone is going through it. Whether you are actually. ill going through the illness experience yourself or caregiving.

[00:05:02] It's a, it's just spoken in whispers. And I think that was kind of what led us to, you know, we have all this information. We were reading all of these books, really interested in this topic. But we also understand that it needs to be something more than just a musical that people sit down at. an experience on the proscenium stage.

[00:05:23] That's what led us to this communal singing experience. And in our conversations with Taby, something slightly unconventional. So that's what set us off on this path that is now Nightside Songs. 

[00:05:33] Jill: And so you wrote all the music as well as the script, the two of you did it. 

[00:05:39] Daniel: Yeah, Patrick and I, we've, we've written a few now, we have a few under our belt at this point, a few musicals.

[00:05:45] And yeah, we actually started out writing what we thought was going to be like maybe 50 songs or something that we'd sort of cycle through every night. It would be this sort of modular experience every night. That modular aspect has remained in that the audience changes and the audience responses affects the piece every time it's done.

[00:06:03] But we didn't have 50 songs in us. But we wrote a good number that we then workshopped and decided on. The reason I say that is because it wasn't written in the traditional book musical way where you sort of like. What you call song spot. You go through the story and you figure out the story like, Oh, this would be a good idea for a song.

[00:06:20] I just remember we wrote all of these songs. They were sort of there. We threw them in this trunk and then Patrick sat down and wrote the story. Picked out a song, put it in, tried it out. And we tried it in a room, even as late as last week. Taby had this idea to move one of the songs a little earlier and it worked so much better.

[00:06:38] So, the piece is very light on its feet and it wants to be very responsive to the artist making it and the audience. Yeah, as Patrick's saying, it's meant to, and this, I'm now stealing Taby's line, but it's sort of meant to be a service. We're not precious about like, The, you know, the character, like make sure the dramaturgy is right there.

[00:06:55] Is it working for the audience? Is it speaking to a truth about this illness experience that we all have? That's the question. Yeah, I 

[00:07:02] Patrick: would just add to that. I was talking to someone yesterday and they were saying, you know, there is a story there, but there's also a ritual element to it too. It's just the idea that we are all in this community, the lights are up.

[00:07:13] We're experiencing this together, we're singing together, and it makes for both a storytelling evening at the theater, but also a ritual with all of us that we're going through. 

[00:07:25] Jill: I love that. Because one of the things that I was thinking as you were talking is, you know, this is a really heavy subject, and it can be super triggering for people.

[00:07:33] And so even for the people that are producing the show, you have to think pretty deeply about this subject when you're working with it, and it will bring things up. Ritual is actually one of my favorite things to do with people when it comes to end of life and grief. So I actually really love that you're saying this is kind of a ritual, because I feel that as humans, We really like ritual.

[00:07:55] Ritual is really important, especially around big milestones in life. I mean, that's why we do it. But have you had any of that? I mean, all three of you talking about this subject so much, working with it, has it been difficult at times? What's that been like? It's 

[00:08:10] Taibi: been a really beautiful and meaningful process.

[00:08:14] I think, especially because we have this incredible cast who can't wait for you to see, incredibly talented, but everyone sort of came to it. Some of them we knew and have been workshopping or developing the show with for a while and some of whom were new. And I think the piece is so beautifully written and as you all have been saying, extremely universal.

[00:08:35] At some point, we're all going through this either with someone close to us or dealing with it ourselves. Sickness and death and dying that it just sort of brings out the best in people is what it feels like the piece does it, you know, it opens up, it gives permission to feel which not to sound like one of those.

[00:08:57] People, but you know, in our, in our times, these days, we're so isolated, increasingly isolated world seems as divisive as ever. And there's something so powerful about being able to connect about something that we all go through, right? Like what's the quote? There are two inevitable things in life, death and taxes.

[00:09:18] Our first week of performances, which we wrapped yesterday, brought out all of these Stories from people, we're all going through this and we don't talk about it. So many friends, mutual friends, even someone that Lizards and I are really close to texted yesterday. It was like, I'm going through this and I had no idea.

[00:09:37] Right. But, and I sort of asked myself why, and then I'm like, well, I'm not going to sit down at lunch and be like, yeah, my father's dying from cancer. Where is the window of opportunity to connect about those things? And that window is actually. really meaningfully meets theater in its most beautiful offering.

[00:09:56] Theater is the exercise of empathy, right? Like you are asked to step into another person's shoes. No other art form does that in such a live and tangible way. I've been calling it an act of service. It is deeply heavy, but it is also so meaningful to connect about those things and see across. Gender, age, race, like all of these things, obviously in different ways and nuances and a set of challenges for others that aren't there for others, but it's been a really humanizing experience.

[00:10:29] Now, that being said, we've brought in professionals that sort of help actors quote unquote D roll. They have to carry a lot of weighty emotional things and there are techniques and rituals to make sure they're not taking it home every night in such a dark way, right? That they're able to release it. do their job and leave the theater.

[00:10:50] But overall, it's been a really powerful commuting experience. Yeah, 

[00:10:54] Patrick: just to add to that TV, a personal thing about the sort of insecurity I had before this. A friend of mine, a lot of the inspiration for the story of the show, the story of this every person character that you follow on the illness journey, Yasmine Holly, a lot of the inspiration came from a very good friend of mine whose mother passed away when she was rather young from cancer.

[00:11:16] I remember being so insecure and being like, I hope she's on the, on an aisle, like near the door. So if it's too much, you can just leave, you know, all these things. And she came up to me after the first reading, she's like, you know, it was. This really healing experience for me because I shunned the memory of it.

[00:11:34] I shunned it and I forgot it and I wanted to forget about it and this show helped me turn to it and look at it as a healing memory. A memory of joy and a memory of my mother and That was just cathartic for me. And so that was just a major moment. I should also say I think there are going to be those people, which is really important and we're really grateful for, but there are also going to be those people that are like, this might be too much.

[00:12:01] And that is okay. As Daniel said, that is okay too. It's okay to leave in the middle of the show if it's overwhelming or whatever, because everyone has their own personal experience. 

[00:12:11] Jill: When you say that it's interactive with the audience, what exactly, because I'm not a theater person, right? Even when I was in high school, I got up on stage once and I literally couldn't open my mouth.

[00:12:21] I was like, I'm going to go in the back and put on people's makeup for them. So that was my experience in theater. What does that mean about it being interactive? How are they going to know when they're supposed to? Is there going to be songs printed? I'm trying to picture it in my head how that works.

[00:12:37] Daniel: Yeah, the interactive element. is the sing along score. I should also say, we're theater people who are very allergic to audience participation as a concept. What people need to know is, we too hate being put on the spot when we come to the theater. There's nothing cool about the spotlight suddenly shining on you and you having to Participate in the show, but I think over the years of development, we figured out a way to make it one, not cringe worthy and to make it an integral part.

[00:13:09] Like I think what has been so moving about this week is you have some people who come in a lot of older men might come in and sit there with their arms crossed at the beginning of the show and not want to participate or, you know, just not be interested in that, not coming in with negative energy, but.

[00:13:25] feeling like everybody else can do it. And then I watch them as the event progresses, they join, and I think it's a product of a number of things, but somewhere in them, they realize that to experience this piece fully singing along is really necessary. It opens you up to other people. And you know, that's something I wanted to say too, in terms of this question of ritual.

[00:13:45] We don't have shared songs. We don't have. If we don't go to church, we don't have hymns that we all know and sing together. And just like you're saying, Jill, it's a very human thing. Music is such a part of ritual. It's an opportunity for non religious people to have some sort of musical catharsis. The singalong has been really interesting and we have a great performer who's actually going to be replaced by another incredible performer in Philly, but his name was Taylor Trench in New York and he.

[00:14:13] Developed this MC character to let the audience let down their guard and invite the voices in. We have different types of group singing, call and response. You know, sort of like round, like canon singing. Yeah, a whole, a whole, a whole host of ways that the audience participates. And it's been really meaningful to see people actually going along for the ride for it, you know.

[00:14:36] Jill: That is so cool. And yeah, I'm going to be one of those people because I'm going to try to go to a show and then I'm actually going to be like the behind the scenes person, I think for two of them in Silly. I'm excited and I'm going to be so uncomfortable. I love to sing. I don't like to sing when anybody else can hear me.

[00:14:51] And so it's definitely going to push me out of my comfort zone a little bit. But that is one of the things that death and dying work has taught me. Being uncomfortable is OK. And that's really when you sometimes do find the most beauty in life is when you challenge yourself to be uncomfortable, to sit with being uncomfortable and then move through it and experience the experience.

[00:15:12] So I will show up and I will sing. Maybe not at first. It might take me a little bit. But it is something that I'm really interested in how you're going to do that. Again, I think there's going to be people that are going to hear like, it's a musical about somebody that's dying. How can songs be incorporated?

[00:15:30] Songs typically make people think of joy, happiness, excitement, and these types of emotions. But death doesn't have to be heavy all the time. Yes, it will always be sad when somebody you love dies. But right now I'm helping care for a friend of mine in Philly. And the last couple of weeks that I've spent with him have been so beautiful and so intimate and so vulnerable.

[00:15:52] And it's a gift for both of us. He even said to me, I didn't think I was going to enjoy dying so much. I was like, I didn't think I was going to enjoy being your caregiver as much, but we've gotten to know each other on such a different level because you have to be real. You have to be vulnerable. And I'm going to be really sad when he dies.

[00:16:11] But I also will never regret this time that we've been together, even if it's going to be a little bit difficult when he does die. Because again, the reality is we're all going to die. So it is what it is. 

[00:16:22] Daniel: This idea of like, being real and being vulnerable, I think is exactly like what we're trying to do with the show.

[00:16:28] And we have so much that we're indebted to the performers to do that to make this space where it's like. Yes, you're going to be doing something uncomfortable, but we're all in it. We're all, I mean, there's literally a line in the show. We're all in it together. I think that spirit is really felt in the room, and that's what I'm so grateful for.

[00:16:46] I've been to some theater experiences where I'm asked to, to, to go there, and I'm just not I don't feel safe with the people that are bringing me there, and that's, we just have such a huge debt to our cast that can hold that, that can be real, and that allows everybody to be vulnerable together. 

[00:17:05] Patrick: Just speaking about the communal singing element, there are also people who come in who are not uncomfortable with singing, don't feel insecure, but just want to listen.

[00:17:15] One experience the sound of people together singing these songs. That's something we welcome as well. We can't prescribe safety, right? Like on, well, we can't prescribe anything on anyone. We can just give what we can offer, what we can offer. There are some people who make their own experience and that experience doesn't involve singing and that's beautiful and celebrated too.

[00:17:37] And in the rooms that we do this show in. 

[00:17:39] Taibi: Yeah, there was someone across the way last week in a performance that I was, you know, never opened their mouth. And I was like, Oh, are they? Yeah, they're not having a good time. But then afterwards overheard them, you know, exclaiming about the show. And I think what about that is that I think we've managed to make it just a really open handed invitation, which is you get to experience this show the way you feel like feeling it today in whatever form that is.

[00:18:09] And so that was moving to To witness also. So no pressure. Jill, you do not have to sing. If you come. No one has to sing if they come. Maybe Daniel, if you wanna speak for a bit about how you did model it in the early stages. You were consciously thinking about a mass in terms of the way that religion and ritual use music to bring people together.

[00:18:29] Yeah, that was part of it. Where, and you know, I'm sure you can sing or not sing, right? It has that sort of open 

[00:18:34] Patrick: quality. Yeah, we were, we were raised Catholic. There are a lot of issues with the Catholic church, obviously. But you know, one of the things that I think we always did take away from it was just the, the element of everyone together in a space.

[00:18:47] I think our favorite part of mass was the canter getting up there and doing a song and you singing along. We wanted to emulate that in a more secular way. I was talking to a guy last night and. I said, I see it as a secular mass. And he's like, yeah, but you could have church groups here. He was like, coming back at me.

[00:19:03] And it's true. Even though it is secular, the show is kind of radically secular. There is a holiness to it 

[00:19:09] Daniel: still. Yeah. I keep thinking about the different audiences it could go to over the course of this festival in New York, the seven performances that we did, the audiences were so different. Some nights they were really quiet.

[00:19:21] And one night it was like a bunch of musical theater friends. of us and the cast that came and it was loud, they were really singing. And I keep thinking about the communities and groups that could go to it in, in various cities, you know, in Philly and Boston, like how, how it will change how the people will be really willing to step in.

[00:19:41] Like in church though, like there were some Sundays, like, I don't know. I mean, we, you know, we were raised Catholic, but our congregation was pretty. You know, musically like anemic, but, but our canter was amazing. The hymns are amazing. And it was an opportunity for Patrick and me to write some hymn like songs, like really simple, simple, melodic material for.

[00:20:04] for everybody to sing along to. So that was sort of the musical challenge to write simple songs that get in your bones. That's part of, that's baked into what musical theater is. People want hummable songs. There's nothing more hummable than a song you have to hum along to. So we had fun with it. 

[00:20:20] Jill: Yeah. I was actually raised Catholic as well.

[00:20:22] And some of my favorite. Memories of my grandmother is like standing next to her in church and holding hands and singing and that is the only thing I do miss from going to church. Is that community of holding everybody's hand and singing along. She would tug at me like you have to sing and I kind of was forced to but also a little part of me kind of loved being forced to because I wanted to but I was shy.

[00:20:47] So it was a whole thing. But yeah, I do love that. And I actually, so I wrote a little note because so far you've mentioned safety twice and the invitation. And I really love that because when I did my trauma sensitive yoga training, that was really what they were saying. It was like, it's an invitation.

[00:21:03] You're never telling anybody what to do when you're trying to be sensitive of their trauma. It's more inviting them if they are feeling it to come in and do Whatever it is, you're asking them to do and so I know we have somebody like me is going to be there to help if someone's having a little bit of a reaction to whatever's happening, but seems like you have put a lot of thought into having people feel safe in a space to touch into some of their old grief, their fears, all of that.

[00:21:34] Is there any other stuff you want to add about that? Because that's something I feel is really important when we're in this vulnerable space. 

[00:21:41] Patrick: I'll tell a story of someone. I think this interesting one, someone during the under the radar festival came up to me and said, you know, when I was going through this unimaginable loss when I was younger, didn't have any songs that spoke to my experience.

[00:21:59] Everyone would come up to me and be like, listen, how sad this song is. And it would be about a breakup. Or whatever, like an unbroken love or whatever. And she was just saying like, I never, I, I didn't have songs to speak directly to what I was going through, which is this very specific loss that everyone goes through.

[00:22:19] She was just like, it was nice. To have that in this space, like a song that spoke to the loss that I experienced and a song that speaks to the truth that everyone goes through it at some point. The other thing I feel like I should add about the show is, you know, specifically, the show starts with this monologue or presentation by the protagonist saying what the show is going to be.

[00:22:43] She says, this is a story. It was an event that focuses on this, this character, Yasmin Hawley, tells the story of Yasmin Hawley and contains other stories from across time and also contains communal singing. The communal singing comes at these points in the show that, that makes sense. You know, you'll, you'll experience the story of this character, Yasmin Hawley, and then the song will come, the song won't speak.

[00:23:07] specifically much like a lot of musicals do like specifically to the character of Yasmine Holly will speak to something a little bit more universal so people can kind of put their experience onto this song and think about their If they want to, welcome in the memories of the experiences they've had.

[00:23:28] Taibi: The other thing that I think we're doing to make the audience feel cared for actually has to do a lot with Kleenex, which I think has become a really amazing metaphor. They're around the space. You don't really see them, but you know they're there. I simply said to the actors, we talked about putting them out on every chair.

[00:23:43] We're still exploring what that is, but I said to the actors, I think it's really embodying of the theme. and the beauty of caretaking. If at any given point you see an audience member really overwhelmed with emotion and doesn't have the tool that they need to get through it, it's totally fine to just hand them a tissue, which I think is an act of like, I see you, we're in this together.

[00:24:13] I specifically said, hand it to them without looking at them. It's just like, you're here, I'm here for you, but I'm not gonna put you on the spot and make you feel uncomfortable. I just know that you are, and so I'm gonna gently give you what you might need in that moment. Or offer it, right? And I did see someone decline it, which was interesting.

[00:24:30] So I think that's a step that is a metaphor for the play. At PTC, we're going to have social workers and people like yourself at every performance, because people do want to talk about it. People have emotions. We're also going to have a room set aside where if you get overwhelmed, you have a place to go.

[00:24:46] And I'm really excited about these. opportunities for audience care, because it's a heavy piece. We try to give as much a sense of what the piece is as possible before people walk in, but you know, it's going to hit people in a variety of ways. So we want to be prepared for those variety of ways. 

[00:25:02] Jill: Yeah, I actually had somebody on my podcast once that was a grief expert, if any of us are really experts at anything, but that was his thing, grief.

[00:25:10] I thought it was interesting that he actually had pointed out that sometimes offering the tissue is almost this like, unconscious signal that your tears are making me uncomfortable. And so he actually was like, you should never offer somebody a tissue when they're in grief and they're crying. And I was like, that's a fascinating way to look at it because our society does.

[00:25:33] get really uncomfortable when somebody's grieving. And even if we don't mean to, we're saying things, we're doing things. I'm not saying your tissue thing is wrong, but it's interesting when you mentioned that somebody turned it down and was like, Nope, I'm good. I'm just going to let it all come out. It is what it is because we are so uncomfortable with people grieving.

[00:25:56] It's nice that. They're going to have this space and be able to feel that what they need is there, that there's going to be people there, that there's also the tissues that they do need them, but that they also have the ability to say, nope, I'm good. I don't need the tissue. I'm just going to let it all come out, which again is very uncomfortable for people.

[00:26:14] Daniel: Yeah, and what I did notice at some of the performances, people actually said it to me as well afterward. It's sort of this chain reaction when you see someone across. We do the show basically in the round, meaning the audience is all around in a circle. You see everybody across the way. The second someone starts to cry, it's like that sort of gives the permission to the person that sees that.

[00:26:37] And you notice the tearier audiences. It was like, it started and it sort of, it spread, and you had some audiences where it was a lot of dry eyes, and that's fine too, and so it's just interesting, what you're saying, we don't have an opportunity in our culture to grieve, I think there's something really cathartic about it, we were raised in Worcester, Massachusetts, it's a very crusty Irish Catholic town, so crying, letting things out is not done, making a space where you can do that, and we'll all do it together, hopefully a service.

[00:27:13] I was sitting next to someone who worked on the piece. Diagnosed two years ago with cancer, and she said this was the first time since my diagnosis, I've had a cathartic experience around it. Mm-hmm . It was really meaningful and it was just, yeah. So it brings up so much, and I think, just like you're saying, Jill, we just don't have these opportunities.

[00:27:35] If you need it, it's there. And again, it's not a requirement to cry. We're not asking anyone to do anything. But we're offering, we're reaching out a hand. Hopefully, you know, 

[00:27:45] Patrick: I should also say too, there is a lot of fun in the show. It goes through someone's, it goes through a long period of someone's life.

[00:27:53] So there's a lot of elements about the show that are just silly. and fun. You're singing along to things that are like, why? I think there's some real goofiness to it that if you want to join in, you can. And so yeah, and that's I think also an element of the catharsis. There's this song called a little wine, which is about someone drinking a glass of wine before they have to start treatment.

[00:28:15] It's just kind of joyous and fun and it's kind of a party. So there are those elements of the show too. 

[00:28:21] Taibi: Yeah, I'm so glad you're highlighting that Patrick because I do think we tend to talk about the heaviness of it. I do think what Daniel and Patrick have done is managed to find and mine all the levity that is existent in the illness journey.

[00:28:34] I was caretaker for my father for the last two years of his life as he was tackling cancer. And there's really funny, silly things that happen at these stages. And the laughter means so much more during this journey. And they've really been able to tap into that. And we got great feedback from someone who'd been with it that That is such as life there are heavy things and funny things and a whole roller coaster inside that and I think the Lozores have managed to capture that which is of great 

[00:29:02] Jill: relief.

[00:29:03] There can be joy and there can be sadness and there could be all the things happening all at once and it's okay right it's part of human existence and so it does talk a little bit about caregiving in the play like it's not just about the person that is going through the treatment it also touches on their caregivers.

[00:29:21] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Before 

[00:29:23] Taibi: COVID, before we were banging pots and pans, we kind of hit on it shortly before that, that, you know, indeed it is the story of one person going on this journey. It highlights both the doctors and the nurses, but also the person's partner and what that experience is, that is a real feature of the show.

[00:29:42] Because that connects even more people, right? Maybe we haven't gone through cancer ourselves, but maybe we've been caregivers or family and friends have been caregivers. It's such a unique opportunity to be a caregiver like that and to highlight all of those things. Selfishly, my mom was a nurse, so I love it in that way because there's a particular sequence, which I think is a real tribute to nurses.

[00:30:03] If anyone's gone through the illness journey knows that, like, your doctors may talk to them a little bit, but the real You know, support that you're getting our, our nurses who to me are the thoughts of the earth, as they say, it's a real tribute to them and what it is to put their 360 degree life aside, to focus and support someone else through this experience.

[00:30:27] Patrick: We have this person on this illness journey that we focus on, but also so much of the show is about different elements of caregivers. We have the nurse, we have, yes means husband. We have a mother and the doctor. We have a, we have a doctor, like, and then in these sort of short sort of fables, we call them visions, we, we, you know, we have other elements, other sides of the caregiving experience.

[00:30:50] So we run the gamut in that way. Yeah, we deal with the joy and grief of someone that is going through cancer and illness. We also deal with the spectrum of feeling when it comes to caregiving. I think this character, Yasmeen's husband, Frank, goes through every goes through everything in the show like he goes through the joy of caregiving the halfway through the show he marries yasmine and he you know deals with deals with like the joy of that the love of that and then he also deals with the the the anger that comes with caregiving sometimes and frustrations that come with caregiving so you get some glimpses into Every element of that journey as well.

[00:31:32] Jill: Yeah, that's wonderful. I really like that you cover the whole experience because you're right. Eventually we will all die and eventually we will probably all care for somebody else. Whether it's if we're lucky enough, right? I keep saying that too, where it's like, I could die tomorrow. I don't know for sure, but hopefully that won't be the case.

[00:31:50] And then at some point, my husband or I, one of us is probably going to have to take care of the other one. It just is part of the human experience. We're almost out of time. So let me just give you a little bit of time to talk about the show coming to Philly, where it's going to be. Cause I know it's not just at the Philadelphia theater company.

[00:32:06] There's a couple other places. So just tell me a little bit about that. 

[00:32:09] Taibi: Yeah, we're really excited to bring it here. And it's sort of going on two different journeys. Going to spend the first two weeks doing a tour through the community. We're going to perform the piece at hospitals, community centers.

[00:32:24] We're performing at the Perlman Hospital and we partnered with the Perton Center, the Robbers Perton Center. I'm really excited for this one. We're performing at the first surgical amphitheater in America. It was so fun in Philly because you get to say that so much. There's so many firsts here. But that's at Pennsylvania Hospital.

[00:32:41] They've only let one performance ever happen in this space, but it's a beautiful place and it's such a great place. Keen opportunity for the piece because as Patrick mentioned, it goes through the history of cancer, the history of cancer development, and talks about the doctors and nurses learning about how to deal with this.

[00:32:56] So that's going to be a really special place to do it in, and there's a couple opportunities on that tour. For audiences are that are public public performances. You can find that more on our website. And then it's going to play at our, our very own theater, the Suzanne Roberts theater on broad street and center city, February 21st through March 9th, you can secure your tickets on that website.

[00:33:20] It's um, it's gonna be an intimate, in the round, as Daniel mentioned, seating about 130 people, and we're really looking forward to it, so please join us. 

[00:33:29] Jill: Yeah, I'll put a link in the show notes too, so people can just easily go to the show notes and click the link. Yeah. And where else are you gonna, you said Boston as well, is that correct?

[00:33:38] Taibi: So the piece was commissioned long ago by the American Repertory Theater, which is in relationship to Harvard. We're going to perform it in Boston the last week in March and all of April. So if you have friends in Boston, you should send them up there. 

[00:33:51] Jill: Like people all around the country that listen to the podcast.

[00:33:54] That's why I want to talk about Philly cause that's where I am. But also I'm sure there's people up in that area that are listening as well. We'd love to see them in Boston. 

[00:34:03] Patrick: Wonderful. 

[00:34:04] Jill: This is exciting. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to be there and go through the whole experience with you. Thanks, Jill.

[00:34:11] Yeah, thanks for having us and please come. We're excited to share it with everyone. 

[00:34:14] Daniel: This 

[00:34:14] Patrick: is such a joy, Jill. Thank you 

[00:34:15] Daniel: for having us, Jill. 

[00:34:17] Jill: Thank you for coming on. Thank you for listening to this episode of Seeing Death Clearly. If you have any feedback or suggestions for guests, Transcripts provided by Transcription Outsourcing, LLC.

[00:34:41] Experience helping founders build businesses that create social and environmental impact. She offers a perspective on how profit and purpose can thrive together. She also discusses her book Souling, a deeply personal exploration of self-discovery and spiritual growth. Tash reflects on her earliest encounters with death, the Jewish tradition she was raised with, and the Maori funeral rite called Tangi.

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