Rose Luardo’s Exploration of Life and Death Part 1

Rose Luardo is a vibrant, multifaceted artist living in South Philadelphia, where she engages in various odd jobs, art projects, and gigs. She's a person who's always been intrigued—and admittedly a bit obsessed—with the concept of death, a curiosity that began in her childhood, possibly sparked by watching The Exorcist too young. This fascination with the unknown led her to create a coffin for a 2017 exhibition at Practice Gallery, an object she couldn't part with and eventually placed in an empty lot near her home.

Her father, a Filipino psychiatrist, greatly influenced her. He was open to discussing anything, from his life in the Philippines to cultural observations, which Rose recorded during a dialysis cruise. These recordings formed part of an art piece that combined her father's stories with a playful, yet poignant, commercial for a fictional "used coffin service."

Rose's work explores the intersection of death and life, evident in her "rave coffin," made from plush materials that evoke a comforting, womb-like environment. This piece invited visitors to experience her father's stories from within the coffin, challenging the fear and discomfort often associated with death.

Rose reflects on society's discomfort with death, contrasting it with the past when death was a more intimate, communal experience. She draws parallels between sex and death, noting that while both are often taboo, people are more willing to engage in conversations about sex, even though death is an inevitable part of life.

In contemplating death, Rose has turned to plant medicines like ayahuasca, seeking to understand the death experience better. She suggests that these experiences, along with practices like meditation, could be ways to prepare for death, a notion supported by recent studies on the therapeutic use of psychedelics for end-of-life anxiety.

Rose believes that confronting our fears—whether through art, conversation, or personal exploration—strengthens us and provides a deeper understanding of life's impermanence. As she notes, our culture often

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Rose: Welcome to my kitchen. Hi, hon. Two ladies meeting for the first time, hanging out and talking about death. 

[00:00:07] Jill: Welcome back to Seeing Death Clearly. I'm your host, Jill McClennen, a death doula and end of life coach. Here on my show, I have conversations with guests that explore the topics of death, dying, grief, and life itself.

[00:00:21] My goal is to create a space where you can challenge the ideas you might already have about these subjects. I want to encourage you to open your mind and consider perspectives beyond what you may currently believe to be true. In this episode, I talk with Rose Luardo, a vibrant multifaceted artist from South Philadelphia with a lifelong fascination with death.

[00:00:42] Her curiosity led her to create unique art that explores the intersection of death and life. We discuss her Rave Coffin, a plush womb like installation. where visitors could listen to a recording of her Filipino father's stories. Rose reflects on society's discomfort with death and contrasts it with more open conversations about sex, despite death being an inevitable part of life and how confronting fears through art, conversation, and exploration builds resilience.

[00:01:14] Rose's work offers a fresh perspective on embracing life's impermanence. With curiosity, creativity, and humor. Thank you for joining us for this conversation. It's possibly my favorite conversation I've had so far. We had a really great time talking. Welcome to the podcast, Rose. I'm super excited to talk to you today.

[00:01:34] Can you just tell people a little bit about who you are, what you do so that they know who you are as a person? 

[00:01:41] Rose: Oh my goodness gracious. I would say like, I'm a gal around town. I live in South Philadelphia. Um, wake up in the morning, have a cup of coffee, pet my cat, and do a number of things. Sometimes odd jobs, art projects, gigs, uh, a little bit of everything.

[00:01:59] I guess I'm just a dude like other dudes.

[00:01:59] Jill: I love it. I'm right outside of South Philly, just on the Jersey side, but it literally is like 10 minutes for me to get into South Philly. So I know the area very well. Recently in the Philadelphia Inquirer, there was an article. about a psychedelic coffin. And I believe the title was something along the lines of psychedelic coffin now in place of where the boob garden used to be.

[00:02:22] I was like, wait, what boobs, coffins? How is all this happening in the same place? And so then I reached out to you and I'm really excited that you're here to talk to me today. Can you actually tell us a little bit about the coffin and how that came to be. I know there's a recording of your father's voice in the coffin.

[00:02:41] The whole thing to me, I was like, this is amazing. 

[00:02:43] Rose: Yeah. I have probably been a little obsessed with death for as long as I can remember. I am very intrigued and freaked out. By the unknown, maybe at a younger age. I watched The Exorcist a little bit too young. I was a little too young. I was so freaked out, but really curious about this idea of another dimension.

[00:03:07] What happens to us when we die? Can we be possessed by somebody else's soul? Can we make contact with a person who has died? Where do we go? My family are a bunch of Catholic human beings, and so I saw open casket funerals. That probably piqued my curiosity, and I made this coffin for a show that I did at Practice Gallery in 2017.

[00:03:32] It was an exhibition, so I didn't want to get rid of it, so I stored it. I'm just racking up bills over there in South Philadelphia storage. I thought it would be appropriate to put that object art in the empty lot that's right up the street from my house. And that's what I did. 

[00:03:47] Jill: I love it so much. We were going to try to see it this past weekend and then realized it was Pride Weekend.

[00:03:52] And trying to get into the city, we were going to a party outside of the city. And even the traffic there was a little bit insane. So we skipped it for this weekend. I'm hoping it's still there. Because I know it's out in the elements and it probably won't last. Super long, but that's okay. I still think it's really amazing that you did it.

[00:04:11] When you put the recording of your father in there, what was the purpose in that? What were you trying to invoke in people by having that in 

[00:04:20] Rose: there? My dad was a real deep freak. By that I mean, there was nothing you couldn't ask him. He was a psychiatrist. He was Filipino. He was two things, Filipino and a psychiatrist.

[00:04:30] He also asked and answered really wild Questions about how he lived in the Philippines, about what he liked about the United States, what he thought about women, what he thought about growing up in the 30s and 40s, how people had relationships in the Philippines in the 30s and 40s, what dating was like, what parenting was like.

[00:04:52] So he would just go off. My dad had diabetes. He was diabetic. He was on dialysis. We went on a dialysis cruise and I brought a recording device with me. I recorded him telling stories about his life. What's this sprawling, almost like a This American Life or a podcast kind of feel where my dad's telling interesting random stories about living just somebody's life, just things that happened.

[00:05:13] And then I interspersed that with commercials for a used coffin service. Obviously that doesn't exist, but it was, uh, M Jensen and, uh, M Jensen's partner, Sean and myself. And we were doing these like little commercials for a place that was called used coffin surface on the boulevard like Gary Barbera's.

[00:05:33] So you didn't have to buy a coffin because they're really expensive. And that was kind of a little bit of the, that a funeral is so expensive and that we can sometimes be spending a lot of money on things like that. So it was, you got in the coffin, in the gallery environment, you got in the coffin and you could close the lid if you wanted to, but you listened to my dad telling this story and it felt kind of relaxing.

[00:05:53] My friend Brian Adolph made the sound, put the whole thing together, and it was a nice accompaniment. The Rave Coffin is made out of this plushy, fleecy material. So it's like a dry womb, is what I was calling it. Get inside this dry womb. Cozy, comfy, storytelling, sleeping, lullaby. That was sort of the vibe.

[00:06:14] Jill: I love it. I wish I could have seen it at the gallery. I'm trying to think 2017. Yeah, I was into death, but definitely not a death doula yet. So I think probably my friends and family already, I think are a little not over me talking about death all the time. But there's definitely a little stigma still where I feel like now when I go out places, people like, what do you do?

[00:06:35] And I'm like, I'm a death doula. And either They want to tell me all their stories, or they turn around and run away from me and act like I didn't say anything at all. Which is fine, because honestly, most conversations at parties I find quite boring, so either talk to me about death, or don't talk to me at all, and that's okay 

[00:06:53] Rose: too.

[00:06:54] Well, this is interesting, because one of the things that you said earlier, before we actually hit the record button, you were like, you know, this isn't a scary conversation, it doesn't have to be, it can be a casual conversation, and I'm going to say, not at all. Sometimes you bring it up in the most innocuous ways and people just head for the door.

[00:07:12] Even when I was putting the coffin at the location where it is now, which is Captain Jesse G's Crab Shack and Art Gallery on Washington. There were people. People. People. that were coming up to talk, they couldn't even have the, we were just casually talking. What are you doing? You know, what is this? And I was like, Oh, it's a coffin.

[00:07:31] And that's it. Turn around, leave. When I put the boobs up there, everybody was interested. But think about it. Boobs, sexuality, fecund, titties, life giving. Everybody wanted a piece. This one, I see a lot of people shying away, shying away from those conversations. Yeah, it's 

[00:07:49] Jill: interesting because I've thought a lot, and I've tried to get a few guests to come on to talk to me about it too, that there really is such a connection in our culture between sex and death.

[00:08:01] But yet, I think the difference is that, yes, people, even if you don't want to admit it, they all want to have sex. They all want the boobs and the sex and all that stuff, so there's that attraction to it, even though there's still not a lot of comfortable conversations being had about sex. Where with death, I think probably even those of us that are comfortable with it, it's still not like I want it to happen soon.

[00:08:25] There's still part of me that's like, yeah, but I don't really want death to happen to me soon. But I love to talk about both of them. 

[00:08:32] Rose: Well, how about this? How about like, not that I want this to happen to me soon, but how am I even going to handle the death of the people that are closest to me? How am I going to handle death when it comes knocking?

[00:08:42] I always think about living in the 1400s, 1300s, 1500s, when your cousin died, your child died, your sister died. People had eight, nine, ten children. Sometimes five of them would die. The Mount Laurel Cemetery, I believe that when that was constructed, the idea is it would be like a park and you would come to spend the afternoon with the dead because that's what you did.

[00:09:02] Because so many family members died. You had a funeral, you laid the body in your home, in your living room, you put it on your kitchen table, you washed it yourself, you helped that person die. Sometimes you were sharing a bed with somebody who was actively dying. We don't do that! It happens, sometimes it happens at home, but sometimes it happens in other spaces and places where we don't look at that.

[00:09:21] Jill: Yeah, it's true. We definitely don't have the same relationship with death. I'd never really thought about that, that in the past people probably did share beds with people that are dying. Where now, we're like, you go into a different room, you have your hospital bed, it's very removed. In the past, you probably did.

[00:09:37] What else are you going to do? A lot of times you. We're sharing the bed with your spouse and probably some of your children too because where else were you going to put them? So yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't thought about that. 

[00:09:50] Rose: Oh, I love to think about it. Oh, I cannot stop. Let me ask you this. Have you helped people die as a doula?

[00:09:57] Have you been with people while they're actively dying? I have 

[00:10:01] Jill: actually. I had sat with people at the hospital that were actively dying, but weren't there when they died. Then in March, my aunt actually died. That was an interesting experience for me because it was the first person that I sat with that was dying, and then they actually did die.

[00:10:21] It also happens to be somebody that I was very close with. I was in this space of. Being somebody's niece, and also being somebody that was there to help guide them through the end. I was really grateful to have been there, and I was happy to be able to support her through something. Again, somebody that really loved me, and I really loved her, and so, yes, I was actually with her.

[00:10:49] It is difficult when somebody that you love dies, even when you're like, okay, death is normal and it's natural and it's supposed to happen. But watching the process of them go through it sometimes I think is really the hardest part because especially nowadays we can keep people alive for a long time.

[00:11:09] And so even some of what she experienced, it would have just been like a quote unquote natural death. She would have been dead three weeks before she died. But instead, we went through this process of, oh, she didn't die, but she was very aware that she was still alive. And she, I don't think, was very happy about that situation.

[00:11:29] And so, uh, Yeah, it was interesting. I think about that fairly regularly with my husband, that one of us is going to have to go through that with the other person. And then my husband and I were both, we're polyamorous, so we both have partners. So we're going to have to potentially go through that with our partners and our partner's spouses or partners.

[00:11:49] There's potentially a whole lot of us that are going to have to. 

[00:11:53] Rose: It's a community event. It's a communal event. It is a communal event. It is a kibbutzing event. What is it? Yeah, kibbutz. It's going to be a kibbutz style event. I feel like Wow. You know what? It's nice to have support for the person supporting.

[00:12:08] It's nice to commiserate with somebody. It's nice to maybe share in that experience. Oh, let me ask you this. Was your aunt the kind of person that wanted to have more life, even when maybe it was time 

[00:12:22] Jill: to go? No, she didn't. And that was part of it too, was that I think my uncle had some regrets that he maybe prolonged her life.

[00:12:32] When she didn't want it. And so that's why when I was at the hospital and I actually did do two podcast episodes. So if anybody wants to hear the full story, go back and find them. It's in there from March. But when I did call him and I was like, I think it's time. Cause he couldn't even get to the hospital, you know, it's time.

[00:12:49] And he was like, all right, she didn't want to live like this. I know she didn't. So if they're saying that they need to give her chest compressions or if they need to intubate her, she doesn't want that and So we're not doing it. I was like, all right, just needed to make sure as there was a room full of people keeping her alive to make sure that we didn't want to do some of these other measures that would have potentially kept her alive for another couple of weeks or a few months, but she would have been completely non responsive.

[00:13:17] That's not what she wanted. That's not what any of us wanted. wanted for her. So thankfully we did know that. Was there a thought about taking her home or could she have done that? At that point we couldn't have taken her home. She would have needed so many machines and it was like it really as soon as we stopped any of the treatments that she was on she was going to die.

[00:13:38] She had been in and out of rehabs for a couple months because it was like the story of a lot of older people. She fell, she broke her hip, broke her wrist. Up until that point, she was basically fine. And six months later, she was dead. It was just a slow progression to getting to that point. She had been home off and on, but at that point, we couldn't get her home.

[00:13:58] Rose: You ever heard this one? That once there's a fall, it's about eight months. You have eight months. Once there's a bad fall. So my dad fell also. And I had a friend that was just like six months and I heard it, but it was like six months. And that's just something to be aware of. I think it's something like menopause.

[00:14:17] People aren't talking. People aren't telling the trade secrets about. I was so happy to hear somebody even say something like that, because I really didn't know. I was just out there. It was like the wild, wild West. It was like Deadwood. I was just out there trying to cobble together. This is something kind of great when you don't know anything at all about what's going to happen or what's going to come next, you're sort of left to your own devices.

[00:14:39] And if you are somebody who can tip into that. Kind of like no man's land. You can create the death experience you think you want to have with your loved one. I did this a number of times because I thought my dad was going to die several times. So I would try and surround him with all of the things that I thought he would enjoy.

[00:14:57] When I thought he was dying at home, I would lie down next to him, rub his head, put music on that I thought he would like. Even though he's diabetic, I'm going to get him a chocolate donut. Like here's the cat. Let's talk to each other and take a nap. And then of course he didn't die. So and then it's just kind of reset, remix.

[00:15:15] When he finally died, he wasn't home. I know that he wanted to be at home. So it gives me a lot of peace knowing that he was in his house with his cat, watching TV in his bed, comfortable, warm. I mean, what else could you possibly long for? He was alone. I had gone to sleep, but I feel like No regrets. I think it might be horrible to have some regrets.

[00:15:36] And I know that a lot of people live with that. Like, hey, this isn't how my mom wanted to have this. This isn't what my spouse would have wanted. That's a hard one. So I feel the best thing we can have in those moments, or when somebody dies, is to know that it was what they wanted, what you wanted, and the most comforting and comfortable situation you could have created.

[00:15:56] Jill: Yeah, that's ideal, right? In my mind, that's how I'm gonna go. At home, with somebody rubbing my head, because I love when people rub my head, and that would be lovely. I hope that's how I go, and I hope that's how I'm able to see my loved ones out. My mother, my husband, if he dies before That is ideal, and It is difficult because so many people don't talk about what they want at the end of life.

[00:16:22] So we don't always know what people want. Some people do want to be at home. Some people do not want to be at home. I've gone back and forth with this idea that at first I was like, Oh no, I think everybody should be at home if they can be. And then there was some things that I thought about and learned about from talking to different people where some people don't want to be at home.

[00:16:43] They don't want to have that memory for their loved ones of like mom died in this bedroom or whatever else it is because I saw the exorcist too when I was a kid and it's the only movie that's ever given me nightmares I had a nightmare that I was possessed it was terrifying very catholic so then I tried asking the nuns do people really get possessed and they're like only bad people and I was like oh my god yeah 

[00:17:08] Rose: let me ask you this this is kind of a change of subject but were you a goth teenager or a goth leaning so 

[00:17:14] Jill: I was When I was about 12, I decided I wanted to wear all black and black hats and this whole thing, but I was in a small town further south in Jersey where there was only 12 people in my class and it was already, that was a terrible year for me.

[00:17:34] 12 years old, sixth grade, was a terrible year. So then I kind of, I think, grew out of that phase. Then I think I got back into it as I got older, where for a long time I had green hair, I had part of my head shaved, and I wore black lipstick. Pretty much now, even still, I almost wear only black clothing, just because, I don't know, I feel more comfortable in it.

[00:17:55] I was all over the place, but when I was a teenager, I don't know what I was. I was I was a mess. And I think that was part of it too was I did not look on the outside like I felt on the inside because I was a lifeguard and a swimmer. So I had very blonde hair and I was very tan. And I think people thought like, Oh, cheerleader, this like blonde, tan, blue eyed whole thing.

[00:18:18] And that was not how I felt. So then I got older and I was like, um, Cutting it all off, and I'm dying it, and I got all the tattoos, and now I look more like I feel on the inside. Wow. I was all over the place. 

[00:18:31] Rose: Well, I think that all over the place is where you should be when you're a teenager. It's the old country buffet of living, you know, you're trying everything on.

[00:18:37] I was a little goth leaning. I was a little goth leaning. I was both afraid of and intrigued by the Ouija, the graveyard, the Bela Lugosi's dead. I was very into the mystery, but also like a little afraid too. And I think maybe now, as an adult, I'm trying to kind of like, probably like, you know, this might be like a Capricorn control thing, where I'm trying to like control and kind of like form death and dying into something.

[00:19:09] I'm gonna say it. fun, fulfilling a practice of intimacy? Can there be any joy in this process? Probably making it more approachable, controlling the way that I see 

[00:19:21] Jill: it to make it more palatable. And I totally understand the idea of being attracted to death and dying, g boards, ghosts, and haunted houses, and all that stuff, while also being Slightly terrified.

[00:19:34] I'm still kind of that way honestly. Every tarot cards, I do tarot parties all the time for people and they'll say, do you talk to dead people? Do you talk to ghosts? I'm like, I honestly don't want to. It kind of scares me. The thought of that, I don't want it. So even if they tried, I'm probably really good at blocking it out.

[00:19:54] Like, nope, you're not getting anywhere near this. I don't want it. So yes, I'm intrigued and fascinated. And I love it. And I'm also still kind of scared. I still got that little Catholic girl in me that's like, I don't want to be possessed. That looks terrifying. I don't want it. And 

[00:20:10] Rose: I think because it's such a mystery, you can just lay whatever you want to because we don't know.

[00:20:15] We just don't know. I think in an attempt to try and get closer to that space, I have done some plant medicines. Transcribed I have done some, uh, medicinal plant medicines. I went on an ayahuasca journey to see what some of that experience might be when you're on something like ayahuasca or mushrooms or maybe even, I know that they're doing ketamine journeys now as a way of a therapeutic ketamine journey.

[00:20:40] But one of the things that happens is you're just not really in control of yourself. And I think that's part of the process of going, of course, I don't know, but it's being in a space that you can't control. And having to find peace within that and touching into communication with yourself that I think might be beneficial.

[00:21:00] It's maybe a practicing for death, they say meditation sometimes can be like a practice of death. I think maybe practicing for death could be, could be something important. Could be. But that is part of why I think I may have done those things. to get myself closer to that experience. Yeah, I 

[00:21:14] Jill: think that's pretty accurate that people that have had near death experiences will compare it to ayahuasca or DMT or like some of those things that they're like, yeah, it's kind of something similar.

[00:21:27] I know there is some work being done with using different psychedelics for end of life in that people that are diagnosed with a terminal illness and they're freaked out and they're upset and they're afraid and they're just not able to continue to live really after their diagnosis. They're using some of these things and finding pretty good results that after they go through this like dieted, but again, it's very They're, they have people around, they dose it a very specific amount.

[00:22:01] They're finding that it actually helps that people afterwards are like, okay, I'm not afraid to die anymore. Like, I'm good. I'm ready. It's fine. So there's definitely something to that. I've never done ayahuasca. I would, if the opportunity was there and it was the right opportunity. But I think sometimes I'm so sensitive to even just marijuana that I'm like, I don't know, I might go and not come back.

[00:22:23] And that's what freaks me out. 

[00:22:25] Rose: What's weird about drugs is that I feel very sensitive to marijuana, but not mushrooms. I also think it's sort of a revolving wheel. As we get older, have you heard that as we get older, every seven years, we're sort of have a full different chemical makeup. Everything has turned over.

[00:22:39] We're kind of a different person. Well, I've noticed that my relationship to certain drugs has changed over the years. Like, I have seen myself be both fine smoking pot, and then it's just such an overwhelming experience, I can't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Or Mushrooms, a dose of mushrooms that used to take me to planet nine now is kind of not phasing me too much.

[00:23:02] It's weird what happens with our bodies and drugs as we get older. I was just thinking of what you were saying how people were having these experiences and it's helping them to cope with the idea of death and they don't have that fear any longer. I wonder if people are microdosing now as a way instead of maybe taking an antidepressant the way we would in the 90s.

[00:23:20] I have a lot of friends that are microdosing and I can't help but think that must be doing something for their neural network and must be doing something to maybe mildly expand what is happening inside this nut. I feel that there's something worthwhile about investigating the things that scare us.

[00:23:37] Jill: Yeah. 

[00:23:37] Rose: There's something worthwhile into like, sitting with what is uncomfortable. And I think that because, again, as we've said in this conversation, because death is so unknowable, it's worth your time to try and touch into that Encyclopedia Britannica, whatever the hell is in there. And to be honest, I like being a little bit scared.

[00:23:55] I have a wild, startle response. or startle reflex. When I go to see a scary movie, it's almost embarrassing for the people that I'm with because I'm freaking out. I enjoy being slightly freaked out. I enjoy going on a roller coaster even though I know I'm scared. Why is this? Because I think we live a lot of our lives trying to be comfortable and life isn't really comfortable.

[00:24:18] A lot of things are sinister and desperately uncomfortable. So if you can get a little closer to the things that scare you. It's kind of like working a muscle. It's kind of like going on a diet. It's kind of like lifting weights. There's going to be a psychic muscle you're building. I think it's 

[00:24:34] Jill: probably common that we actually like being a little bit scared.

[00:24:38] This weekend, my 13 year old went to Six Flags Great Adventure for a birthday party. He said they got onto the Superman ride where they lay you like you were flying. And they sat there for a couple minutes. And then they got everybody off it and they said, Oh, we have to do some maintenance on the ride.

[00:24:56] So 45 minutes later, they get on the ride. He's the first one on. And he was like, and it was even more fun because it was scarier knowing something might be wrong with it. And it's like, Oh, all right. I guess I could understand that though. I mean, that is why we like scary movies and why we like roller coasters.

[00:25:16] And there is a part of us that, I don't know, that electricity that runs through us when we get scared or freaked out about something. Then I think the after effect is probably it. We probably like that that feels good too. 

[00:25:29] Rose: Do you think there's something missing in modern society that we've made these things?

[00:25:34] We've invented these things to freak ourselves out? I do 

[00:25:36] Jill: think that part of it is. The lack of actual connection to death and dying that we are so obsessed with death and dying in media and think about how many movies and even now, especially since the pandemic, how many movies and TV shows, it's all about apocalypse style stuff, the end of the world, what's going to happen after the end of the world, people going to different alternate realities, whatever else it is, we don't deal with the things in real life.

[00:26:06] Right. But we want to be entertained by them at the same time, and it is interesting. I guess there's this way we could watch it or experience it and be like, but it's still not me. It's not me. That's not real. It's not me that makes us feel okay. But yet we also have this drawl because it is a natural part of life.

[00:26:27] But even again, back in the day, think about how many times you were probably scared for your life. Because of whatever it was, whether it was wild animals or other people. And now most of us, we might talk all over social media and on the news about how dangerous it is and how scary it is. But like 99. 99 percent of the time, I'm pretty safe.

[00:26:47] And I know I'm pretty safe. That's the reality. And I'm grateful for that. But I think then also there's that Attraction towards the other stuff as well. 

[00:26:57] Rose: We're living in a very strange time right now. Where there's a lot of death and dying and a lot of disrespect for human life. I have a feeling many, many people do not respect human life.

[00:27:08] Human beings. A body. A child. I guess we kind of knew this. Because we've seen humans do this in the past. But the scale to which it is happening right now is freaky deaky. That doesn't seem to be changing. And I'm wondering what's happening. What is the zeitgeist when that is the moment that we're all living in?

[00:27:28] Jill: I don't know. Having two children of my own, I worry about the world that we're leaving them, which I feel like every generation says that, but at the same time, for example, my aunt that just died, her and my uncle used to tag Monarch butterflies because they were retired. They lived in Cape May. So they would tag Monarch butterflies.

[00:27:46] And after my aunt died, we went to visit my uncle. And that was one of the things that he was saying that even in Mexico, which is where they all go, they're reporting back that there is a significant drop in the amount of Monarch butterflies. It's not good. The amount of drop in Monarch butterflies, my husband and I are commenting on the lack of bees and bugs outside this year, even mosquitoes, which I hate mosquitoes.

[00:28:10] But either way, the fact that there's less of them, we are not going into an era that is, it's already not been sustainable between the lack of respect for human life, the lack of respect for any life in general, bugs, animals, plants, like all of it, right? We do not respect the things that are keeping us alive.

[00:28:33] And I do worry because now we have environmental problems. But as humans, we also have the technology to destroy a lot of lives very quickly and very easily, especially if it gets in the wrong hands. And I'm not always convinced that the right hands have these things. So yes, I worry about that. And again, I know every generation's like, I worry for the children, but I think this is a generation that there's Valid worries that we might not exist much longer, but I also can't worry.

[00:29:07] I can't stay up at night obsessing about it other than I try to do what I can, which is plant my wildflower garden to attract more bugs. I don't know. What else am I supposed to do? Hey, listen, that's the thing. 

[00:29:19] Rose: This Earth isn't built to live forever either. Everything goes to the black hole, everything goes to the abyss, including this planet.

[00:29:27] Maybe we're just on the precipice. Maybe the Earth fell. And when something falls, as we just talked about, when a person falls, they don't have that much longer to live. It's just something to keep in the back of your mind. I had a conversation with somebody once where we were just equating What's happening right now to just like an abandoned strip mall or an abandoned McMansion.

[00:29:46] And like, maybe the deal is that we just kind of like to the best of our ability, just party here as we can. The whole place is on fire. Let's Crack a tequiza. Let's make a margarita. Let's be as kind as we can to ourselves and to other people. But let's also have the realization that, look, nothing lasts forever, including the earth.

[00:30:07] And what we have done to this place, we treated our house really poorly. We wrote it hard. And put it away wet. We abused it. And so, look, what do you expect? I don't know if we can reverse what we've done. And there's a lot of spaces and places and people that aren't doing that. And don't even have the same mindset that you and I might have about what to do next and how to care for it.

[00:30:30] And so my thought is let me clean up my front step. Let me be a Girl Scout about it. Let me clean up what I can clean up. And then let me have the experiences that leave the least amount of impact that might bring me some clarity about how to live out the rest of my years. 

[00:30:47] Jill: Yeah, and that's it. All we can do is what I think it's like a Mother Teresa quote of like, you have to just focus on what's nearest to you.

[00:30:55] And that's how we create the actual change. But you're right, I don't know if we can come back from it. But yeah, maybe we're not supposed to. Maybe this is the end of our cycle. And that's the thing too, with reading tarot cards. I feel like that's the thing I say to people. Constantly is we're always going in cycles.

[00:31:11] You're at this point in a cycle. You're at the ending or at the beginning of a new cycle. It's always about the cycles and a human life. It's a cycle, you know, like maybe humanity in general. Maybe this is coming on the end of our cycle. I had a friend in college that when we were talking one day. He was like, look, the Earth will be fine.

[00:31:30] It will kill us all off and regenerate. Don't worry about the earth. And I was like, yeah, but I'm worried about us. Like I don't want us all to die. But then in the long run, I'm like, why not? And really, why not? Does it really matter? Thank you for listening to this episode of Seeing Death Clearly. In the next episode, I conclude my conversation with Rose Ardio.

[00:31:51] Rose asks me insightful questions about my work as a death ruler, my podcast, and more. We explore topics that delve into the realities of life and death, encouraging acceptance of what we can and can't control, and embracing both the good and bad in life. We also discussed the deep emotions of losing loved ones, the impact of aging and menopause, and the importance of facing these realities head on and about how through life's journey, we've both learned to let go of material things and live simpler, more meaningful lives.

[00:32:24] If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or family member who might find it interesting. Your support in spreading the podcast is greatly appreciated. Please consider subscribing on your favorite podcast platform and leaving a five star review. Your positive feedback helps recommend the podcast to others.

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[00:32:57] You can find a link in the show notes to subscribe to the paid monthly subscription as well as a link to my Venmo if you prefer to make a one time contribution. Thank you and I look forward to seeing you in next week's episode of Seeing Death Clearly.