Grief, Culture, and Mental Health with Meloney Hendricks

Meloney, a first-generation BVI islander from Tortola in the Caribbean, shares her unique cultural background, heavily influenced by her Jamaican roots. She highlights the diverse religious and cultural landscape of Jamaica, including the presence of various ethnicities and religions. Despite being predominantly Christian, Jamaican culture is a fusion of different beliefs and practices.

She delves into the intersection of Christianity and African spirituality in her upbringing, emphasizing the blend of Christian teachings with African rituals like Obia or Voodoo. Meloney recounts her experiences with death, particularly the tradition of "nine nights" celebrations before funerals, where families gather to honor the deceased with food, music, and storytelling, turning grief into a celebration of life.

Reflecting on encounters with spirits, Meloney shares anecdotes from her life, including sightings of black bats symbolizing departed spirits and eerie experiences in church. She discusses the significance of facing mortality and the fear of unfinished business, drawing from personal struggles and losses in her journey toward mental health advocacy.

Meloney candidly discusses her battle with bipolar disorder and the impact of witnessing classmates' suicides. These experiences prompted her to create a safe space through her blog, "The Between and the Rocks," where she promotes mental health awareness and offers support to others facing similar challenges. Additionally, Meloney is a serial entrepreneur and a devoted mother, cherishing her role as a parent despite past traumas like miscarriages and the loss of her child's father.

In the face of grief and loss, Meloney finds solace in memories and acknowledges the bittersweetness of remembrance. She concludes by emphasizing the importance of embracing life's uncertainties and cherishing every moment, guided by the understanding that while death is inevitable, the way we choose to live is within our control.

Blog: www.dopamineontherocks.com 

Facebook.com/dopamineontherocks

Instagram.com/dopamineontherocks

Transcript

[00:00:00] Meloney: You actually speed up the process to death. Worrying about death instead of living your life. You're so concerned about dying and aging. We do all these things because we fear death, that we don't take the time to live. 

[00:00:15] Jill: Welcome back to Seeing Death Clearly. I'm your host, Jill McLennan, a death doula and end of life coach.

[00:00:21] Here on my show, I have conversations with guests that explore the topics of death, dying, grief, and life itself. My goal is to create a space where you can challenge the ideas you might already have about these subjects. I want to encourage you to open your mind and consider perspectives beyond what you may currently believe to be true.

[00:00:40] In this week's episode, I talk with Melanie Hendricks, who came from a family with deep Jamaican roots. Melanie shares insights into her community's diverse cultural background, and their spiritual and cultural traditions that blend Christianity with African spirituality. Melanie opens up about her struggles with bipolar disorder, her personal losses, and her experiences.

[00:01:03] And her advocating for mental health awareness through her blog. Trigger warning that we do discuss murder, suicide, and miscarriage. There's no graphic details, but they are major parts of Melanie's story. Thank you for joining us for this conversation. Welcome, Melanie, to the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on today.

[00:01:23] I've been looking forward to this conversation since we connected. Thank you so much for having me. Oh my god, I'm so excited. Me too. So can you just tell us first a little bit about where you're from, anything from your background that kind of sets us up for where your beliefs came from about death and dying and grief and all the good stuff.

[00:01:43] Meloney: Got it. So I am actually first generation BVI lander. I am from the island of Tortola here in the Caribbean. That's a part of the British Virgin Islands. But my parents and majority of my family are from Jamaica. So I grew up with a lot of my Jamaican roots, my culture and everything. I'm more opposed to that because that's where my family is from.

[00:02:06] So a lot of my views around religion, death and all of that right there, it's mixed up in the Jamaican culture. 

[00:02:12] Jill: What religion is that, that typically most people from Jamaica practice? 

[00:02:17] Meloney: Majority of the community are Christian, and there are a sprinkle of different cultures, different religious backgrounds, there are Buddhists, Muslims, it all depends on your family background, because the model for Jamaica is also many one people.

[00:02:33] So there's a lot of different cultures. Races that make up the Jamaican population that I don't think a lot of people know. They're Asian people, they're African people, that the black people, Spanish, white, this and that. You'll be surprised of the cultural makeup of Jamaica when you look at the background of people.

[00:02:52] My great-grandfather was from the middle. What religion then did he practice? I would assume that he was Muslim. Never met him, but based on the family tree, that's where they say he was from. 

[00:03:04] Jill: Very interesting. I love the family trees. A lot of times, we're from all over. Sometimes people ask, well, what are you?

[00:03:11] And I'm like, I'm a mutt. Like, yes, I'm a white girl. But like, I am so mixed up of so many different things that honestly I associate the most with Ukrainian because that's what my grandmother was and my grandmother raised me and so that's the food and the culture but really I'm a pretty small percentage Ukrainian when it comes to 

[00:03:33] Meloney: it.

[00:03:33] Majority of my family is African descent but like I said we're mixed up all over. I have a niece from Russia and from the UK and I know I have a Chinese cousin so Yeah, with this world that we're in, no, I don't think there's gonna be a pure race, I would say. We're all like mixed up some way, somehow. 

[00:03:53] Jill: Yes, we are.

[00:03:54] And then really, I guess if you trace it all the way back, we all came originally from Africa anyway, because that's where the first humans came from, right? So like, All the way back. We all started in the same place, as much as some people don't like to actually think of it that way. But whatever. That's a whole different conversation.

[00:04:12] Yeah. That's a whole nother conversation. Yes, it is. So when you were growing up, was your family religious? How did that work out? 

[00:04:19] Meloney: I grew up in the church, going to church on the Saturday morning, which I dreaded. I hated it. I hate going to Sunday school and listening to those long, boring songs. Sermons and whatnot.

[00:04:29] But as I got older, I appreciate my relationship with God in my own way. I don't believe that I have to go to church to have that relationship with my heavenly father. He's here with me at all times. I don't need to go to a building despite my cultural say so. So yeah, we grew up in the church, going to church every Sunday, learning our Bible verses, saying your prayers at nighttime and all of that stuff.

[00:04:53] So yeah, the Christian. And religion was really ingrained into me at a young age. However, like I said, because we're mixed up with the African culture, there was the African, I would say rituals that would make its way over. We believe in spirits and Obia or Voodoo as most people might. Be more familiar with the term.

[00:05:14] So we always heard like spirits following you home and warding off evil spirits and doing certain rituals to make sure you bring good luck and this and that. So it's like, it's mixed up in there. 

[00:05:26] Jill: I love that actually. I think. all religions, we do kind of bring different parts of our culture into the religious practices.

[00:05:35] And when you were younger, did you experience like the death of somebody that was close with you? Or I think more broadly, like when I grew up, I grew up in an area of South Jersey. The way that we handled death, it was pretty much the same no matter who it was, right? It's kind of a very certain way. So, how did your family and your neighbors and everybody in your community work with death and dying?

[00:05:59] Meloney: Oh, wow, I actually forgot about that. Yeah, so Growing up, yes, I think the death experiences that I had growing up were obviously my grandparents and older family members and traditionally, before the funeral, we would have what we call nine nights. So it's like, Big party before the send off. So you would have family come together, prepare food and drinks, and like for those nights leading up to the funeral, people would come up from all over.

[00:06:32] And it doesn't have to be family, like how you go to a block party. That's what it was, like people would just show up, we play dominoes, we eat good food, we sing. I think the best way to describe it would be like Negro spirituals. I can't really find the word to call it right now, but it's like really old school, really old school gospel.

[00:06:49] There are certain songs that we would sing during the Nine Nights festivities to kind of give the person a good send off. Everybody have fun. It kind of takes that gloom and doom from the dead. and just celebrate their life, share stories and everything. You meet families that you haven't seen in forever.

[00:07:09] People from all over come and share their experience about this person, or people just don't know the person, they just show up and want some food and a good time. That's how we would start to celebrate until the funeral. And I think it's basically the same, like, normal, you'd have the funeral and afterwards you would have food again.

[00:07:28] I find that we love, we love a lot of food when we're grieving. 

[00:07:31] Jill: Well, I just love food in general, especially with my background in food service. Like to me, I love any occasion when you bring people together. And food is part of it, so I just feel like there's something really special about that. It's very comforting, yeah.

[00:07:46] It is, it is very comforting. And so did it last for nine nights or it's just called Nine Nights? Nine Nights. Nine Nights, 

[00:07:55] Meloney: yeah, yeah. So whole party and everything, you live it up. I have a really good time before that big send off at the end. So a lot of people would really look forward to that. I haven't thought about that in a long time until you brought it up.

[00:08:09] Jill: Oh, see, and I'm fascinated. I've actually never heard of that. And where is the person's body during that? Like, is that something where they're not present for it? Or is there like the body displayed for? 

[00:08:23] Meloney: Usually the body is already Off the property, being prepared for the funeral. Well, what I can remember is when a person actually dies, there are times when the family might come over to view the body and send their goodbyes before the people come and take them away and everything.

[00:08:40] But I would say based on my experience and any Jamaicans out there who think I'm wrong, you know, this is all I could remember, correct me if I'm wrong. But it's like, and most of the times the body's already off the property and you get to see them again at a funeral for the viewing. 

[00:08:55] Jill: And is there any special like rituals or anything that you do at the viewings in the funeral or even afterwards?

[00:09:02] Is there anything that your family did or again even just within your community? 

[00:09:06] Meloney: I can't remember much from my childhood, but I do remember. So my daughter's father was murdered on his way home one day, literally two weeks after she was born. He just left us and came to see the baby and he was on his way home.

[00:09:23] Tragically, he was robbed and murdered. It's one of those things that. I just recently, like, grieved properly. When I would tell the story, I would just tell it like any other story until I see someone else's reaction. And I was like, oh, yeah, that is really sad. But I never had the time to really deal with it.

[00:09:42] So, after his death, because we were a couple, my relatives had me do a quote unquote ritual or, Whatever you want to call it to kind of sever that bond so that his spirit wouldn't come back and visit me because I guess because he was taken away so fast and tragically his spirit may still perceive that he's still alive.

[00:10:04] So we had to kind of like sever that bond. I can't remember everything. It's like 13 years ago, but they had me put like a tape measure, you know, the ones that you measure yourself with when you're getting dressed. So when you're closed, you put that around, you tie it and you get a lock with a key and you gotta lock it.

[00:10:23] And then you take the key and you throw the key in the bushes and you have to say a special thing, like, you know, tell him to leave you alone or I'm done with you or whatnot. It's really silly when I say it back, but it's like, yes. And I had to wear that for like a certain length of time to. completely severed the bond and then I could take that off so that he wouldn't visit me at nights like partners would.

[00:10:43] So that was very strange. As I repeated, I'm like, but is it, is it really? But you grew up in this culture where you've been taught all along about spirits and this and that, you know, so you do it just to be safe. It sounds a little fishy, but let me do it. Just in case. It's kind of like when you spill salt, you throw it over your shoulder.

[00:11:05] It's one of those superstitious things that you do just in case. I would say that's the only thing that I can remember at the moment. 

[00:11:11] Jill: That's a really interesting way of doing it with like the measuring tape and laying it around. That's the thing with Rituals like that, especially kind of like superstitious rituals is from the outside and with distance Sometimes we look at them and we're like, oh, well, that's kind of weird.

[00:11:28] That's kind of silly, but there's something I think as humans that Ritual really works for us for closure or for healing and it's the going through the motions and putting that intention behind it of like, no, I am breaking ties. It's probably as much foreclosure for you as it is for actually saying, well, I'm going to sever the ties.

[00:11:51] But I'm also kind of one of those people where I'm like, especially with tragic deaths like that. I do think. Again, I don't have proof, but I do think that if there was ever a time when a spirit would hang around, that would be it because it happened quickly. It happened tragically. It happened right after the birth of a child.

[00:12:13] There's a whole lot of reasons why I try to imagine if it was me, I would stick around. There was no way I would be like, okay, sure. I'm going to move on now. I would not want to move on. They might need to do something like that for me to be like, no, Jill, it's time. Just leave it 

[00:12:33] Meloney: alone, please. I remember when we would see black bats.

[00:12:37] I think they're really large moths, but we call them bats in Jamaica. So when you would see a really big black bat. You say, Oh, there's somebody's spirit around here. So I remember going to church after my child's father's death and a bat flew in and kind of flew around me and the pastor was like, you see, Oh yeah, that's him.

[00:13:00] Oh, he misses you. Yada, yada, yada. They say that kids can see spirits and whatnot. So I do remember when my daughter was younger, I think she was about two or three at that time. And we were leaving home and I was taking her to school and she kept pointing, Mommy, look, the man, the man. I'm like, what man?

[00:13:21] She's like, right, right there. Like the man. I was like, yes. A part of me was freaking out. I'm like, okay. And I said a little prayer and I call his name and say, Hey, if that's you, please go. So it's, This is one of those strange things, you know, when you're in the culture of it, it seems normal. But like I said, when you tell the story to other people and you explain, it's like, yeah, that sounds a little crazy.

[00:13:45] Jill: All of the cultures, we all have some weird stuff that we do, right? We might not talk about it all the time. Right. But we do, we have weird beliefs. And even for me, I still knock on wood, like they're still part of me. That like, I just, again, like you said, it doesn't hurt. I'd rather do it and not do it. So there is part of me that still is like, well, I need to knock on some wood over that, or the throwing the salt over the shoulder, or whatever it is.

[00:14:10] Even people that drive by graveyards and still bless themselves, right? Sign of the cross, because they're like, right? So again, whatever, as long as it brings people the comfort that they need, especially at really difficult times. Then, you know, I'm certainly not going to judge, and I love learning about it, and I love talking about it, and I love thinking about it.

[00:14:32] I do. This 

[00:14:32] Meloney: is my favorite stuff. As you brought up the graveyard, I remember growing up as kids, you know, you would pass and you'd point, oh, look, look at that graveyard over there, or look at that tomb. And I remember being, like, spanked, like, don't, don't do that. If you point it to a grave, you have to bite all your fingers, all your ten fingers, or they'll fall off.

[00:14:50] So like, as a child I was like, I don't want my fingers to fall. I was growing up with a habit of not pointing at graves or even playing with your shadow. That was a no no. That was a no no. It's like, like, playing with spirits. You don't play with your shadow. You're not supposed to. That's a no no. 

[00:15:07] Jill: Oh, that's another one.

[00:15:08] Or actually, things I've never heard of. The biting the fingers after pointing at a grave. And yeah, not playing with your shadow. And I guess I can understand how that one would have potentially come to play of like, the shadow is such an interesting thing, especially if you go back to like early humans, where they didn't understand necessarily why it was there sometimes and why it wasn't other times, I could see how they would think it was related to spirits.

[00:15:34] And I've always been fascinated by spirits, even when I was a child. But there is a little part of me that I think like you were, your daughter was like, Oh, that man. And you were like, Oh, there is a little part of me that is like, All right, y'all, if you're here, just don't show me please. Right? I don't want to see you.

[00:15:55] You could stay where you're at. Please and thank you, but I do think children are more sensitive. I think children are more sensitive to a lot of things until they're taught not to be and right and spirits could for sure be one of those things that when you're a child before somebody says to you, well, that's scary or no, I don't see that either.

[00:16:19] There's probably children that are walking around all the time and just seeing them and not thinking anything of it because they're used to it. And eventually they learn to keep that to themselves out of shame or embarrassment or whatever it is. 

[00:16:33] Meloney: Exactly. Exactly. I do agree. It's so interesting to me that as I talk to you, it's like the flood of memories keep coming back to me because this isn't a topic that we talk about a lot.

[00:16:45] It's almost Not allowed. It's so morbid. Why are you talking about death? What's wrong with you? Are you calling death onto yourself? So it's not a topic that is discussed. As we talk more like, oh, I remember this and I remember that I remember this. I was actually telling my friend about this the other day about an experience where I actually My daughter was a baby at that time.

[00:17:07] She was a couple months old. And at night, I like her to sleep on the bed with me. But during the day, she would sleep in her crib. She likes to toss and turn. Even at that tiny little age, she'd like to toss and turn and move all about. So I would bring the crib closer to the bed to create that extra barrier for her.

[00:17:25] So I remember one night I was half asleep, half awake, and I know my mom would come into the room and check on us before she goes to her bed, which used to annoy me because she would scare me out of my sleep sometimes when I see her. So I remember this night where I look over, And I see this figure, like, adjusting my baby in the bed, so I didn't think nothing much of it.

[00:17:48] It wasn't in a bad way, it's just she was adjusting the baby like my daughter was slung herself a certain way, and she was just fixing her properly. And I closed my eyes, but I was like, wait a minute, how did that person reach over the crib to tuck my daughter in? Because my mom is short as me, and my hands are short, she can't reach over, so how can she do it?

[00:18:09] So. I open back my eyes and I'm like, down this figure is like walking at the foot of my bed, across the foot of my bed, because there's an exit. One of the doors to the room is at the foot of the bed and she's walking by and I'm like, mommy, no answer. I'm like, mommy, no answer. The person just stopped, looked at me, Turn back around and continue walking.

[00:18:32] And I went back to sleep, but it, it really irritated me. So the morning I got up, I'm like, Mommy, seriously, how many times I got to tell you when you come into my room to check on the baby? You could come, but you don't wake us up. And she was like, what are you talking about? I said, you were in my room last night.

[00:18:45] No, I wasn't. Yes, you were. Oh, no, I wasn't. I'm like, then who was it? I'm like, If you weren't in my room, and we're the only two females in here, who was? I was sitting there and I'm thinking, and I remember that a woman that I saw actually kind of looked like my grandmother. I was like, I was like, huh? Now my grandmother passed away like years before my daughter was born.

[00:19:10] So I was like, interesting, creepy. Well, interesting. We hear a lot of stories like that where like dead ancestors come and visit us or people have been encounters with spirits and whatnot. But like I said, as you talk about it, like the rush of memories and stories that I've heard are just coming, filling my mind.

[00:19:29] So yeah, I think you would be thoroughly entertained if you went to Jamaica. 

[00:19:32] Jill: I actually really would love to go to Jamaica. It's on my bucket list of places to go. Anytime that I have, especially like a friend or somebody that lives there or has family there because that's the way that I like to travel.

[00:19:45] I don't want to go someplace and like stay in a hotel and go to the touristy places. Like I want to, I want to go where the locals go. Like I want to meet the people. I want to eat the food. Like that's the way that I like to travel. Trust 

[00:19:58] Meloney: me, you'll enjoy it. But tell me though, how did you get? into grief coaching and all those stuff.

[00:20:05] Jill: Well, I lived with my grandmother. And when, let's see, so we moved in with her when she was 90. Whoa. Yeah, right. She lived on a farm when she was younger. Her and my grandfather got married when she was like 20 or 21. And she lived in that house until she was 94 when she died. And so part of it was if we move in with her, she gets to stay in her house.

[00:20:27] And my husband and I wanted to open a bakery. And so we moved in with her and she got diagnosed with cancer. So the last couple of years of her life, we kind of went through the treatments. And when my son was six months old, my grandmother got to the point where it was like, all right, we're sending her home on hospital leave.

[00:20:45] Talking about spirits, man. She came home on hospice and I thought, Oh, grandma's going to sleep a lot. And it's just going to be like, it isn't a movie and it was not like it was in a movie. She saw people that had already died many years ago. You saw people that she just described them as like women that were standing behind me and were singing to her.

[00:21:06] And I'm up in the middle of the night, nursing a baby. She doesn't know who I am. She thinks I'm a nurse working for her. And she's saying to me, my granddaughter has a baby the same age as yours. And I was like, but I am your granddaughter. She was like, no, you're not. You're the nurse. So more that I started to learn and understand.

[00:21:25] And thankfully for the nurses that when they would come in, I was like, she's talking to people and they're like, oh, they do that all the time. It's fine. Like, it's okay. I was like, all right. But it was a really beautiful experience to be with somebody that I loved so much during such a interesting and transformative time.

[00:21:49] Like she was transitioning out of life. That's a big deal for a human. And so I even told my husband then I was like, I might want to go back to school to be a hospice nurse. You know, we had a baby and we had a bakery and. life. And so I just kind of put it on the back burner for a while. But I think I was always really interested in death and dying, even when I was a child.

[00:22:15] And in some of it, it was even like the horror stuff, like the ghost stories and the haunted houses and seances and Ouija boards and like all that kind of stuff. And then I scared myself with a Ouija board. So I still will not touch one. 

[00:22:27] Meloney: Yeah, that's a no no. 

[00:22:28] Jill: Yeah, right. I think the last time I touched one, I was Probably 13 and I've never touched one since but it just kind of stayed back in my mind and let's say that was in 2011 so in 2020 is when I started my training to become a death doula where I had heard of what a death doula was and I was like well that might be the thing because I really like the idea of supporting people emotionally and spiritually through death and dying and grief.

[00:23:02] Again, I didn't want to do the nursing kind of stuff. And it really feels like this is what my soul was put here to do, to work with people in this type of area, right? The death, the dying, the grief, it just took me a little while to find it, right? Even though I'm only 45. But there's still part of me that's like, Oh man, 45.

[00:23:22] I'm over the hill. This is it. I'm done. 

[00:23:25] Meloney: I honor you. I really respect your work and I really appreciate what you're doing for people because I know that I couldn't do that. It all goes to what you said that that's your purpose and you're walking in your purpose and That's the same way I feel about mental health.

[00:23:41] And why I write my blogs in the first place is that felt like my purpose, because for so long, I was searching for what I was placed here to do. And so I'm really happy when I hear people say that, okay, I found my purpose. I'm walking in my purpose. I feel so fulfilled in doing it. And when you're walking in your purpose, when you're doing it for someone else.

[00:24:03] You're serving someone else. So I would say I commend you for that process and for giving your life to such a worthy cause. I listened to you and that reminded me of a conversation that I had with a really close friend of mine over the weekend. She actually died in 2017. And, uh, she was brought back to life and I asked her this weekend about that, what, what did that feel like?

[00:24:29] And she said when she died, she felt like she was dreaming, but it felt so peaceful. And she said that there was this big, bright light. When she looked into the light, it felt like, And I was like, wow, the few hours later she was back here with us and that experience in itself changed the way she lived.

[00:24:49] Imagine dying changed the way she lived. And that's remarkable. 

[00:24:54] Jill: Near death experiences often change people, they would say for the better, right? Not everybody has that experience, but a lot of people, they'll, they'll say it changed them for the better. And that's really one of the things that I talk about so much is we don't have to die to still have some of that experience.

[00:25:15] What we need to do is face the fact that we're going to die and talk about it and think about it and really. Not be so afraid of the fact that we're going to die It will actually help you to live your life differently And I would say live your life better because you are more present and you're more grateful I know anybody that listens to my podcast regularly hears me say this all the time But it literally did change the way that I move throughout my day So I didn't have a near death experience, but I got really comfortable with death And it changed me.

[00:25:52] And it's something that all of us could have a better relationship with death. That byproduct is that then you actually have a better life when you have a better relationship with death. 

[00:26:04] Meloney: I wonder where does that actual fear come from? And what comes to my mind is so many unfinished things, so many unfinished business.

[00:26:13] I don't want to leave here and not sit in my chair and do this. I don't want to leave here and not do this or that or accomplish this. You actually speed up the process to death, worrying about death instead of living your life. You're so concerned about dying and aging. We do all these things because we fear death, that we don't take the time to live.

[00:26:34] Jill: It's true. We don't take the time to live. And there's definitely things that, no matter what, especially if it happens when I'm younger, right, I'm not going to be okay. I want to see my children grow up. I want to see them get married or not get married, do whatever it is they're going to do, right? I want to see them live their life.

[00:26:54] So I don't know if I will ever get over that, but I can really think of how many times I wasn't present to actually experience life with them until I got okay with death. And now the reality that I am going to die one day, the reality that my husband is going to die one day, the reality that potentially my children could die before me as much as again, that's what I'm going to knock on wood, right?

[00:27:24] There's my superstition. I'm going to knock on some wood. Won't happen, but that reality makes it. So that now I experience life with them more fully than I ever did before. And this is just kind of the thoughts that I have based off of conversations that I've had with people that are dying, that when they're dying, they realize how much they actually missed when they were alive.

[00:27:48] It's not even, yes, there's things they're like, well, I'm going to be really sad that I'm not going to see my granddaughter graduate high school or whatever. A lot of it is that. I wasn't really present. I was working. I was out. I was doing this. I was doing that. I missed games with my children. They're really thinking about all the times that they didn't actually live their life because they were too busy worrying about things, trying to make more and more money because they're afraid that they don't have enough.

[00:28:16] That's my thoughts about it. I don't have proof, but I think that that's really the biggest thing is that we don't live our life. And so when we get to the end, we have so many. feelings of regret for what we miss that then we're not ready to go because we're like, wait, wait, wait, but I actually want to live now.

[00:28:36] Like now I want to do it. And that's why I think when people have near death experiences, they get that second chance. They give themselves the permission. They give themselves the permission too, because also if it's somebody like your friend that they had that experience and they thought, honestly, it's calm, and I felt good.

[00:28:55] I didn't feel afraid. It didn't seem like this terrible experience. So then they also lose their fear of death, which gives them permission somehow to live their life. It's really interesting how human brains work that way. 

[00:29:10] Meloney: So like you, I didn't have a near death experience, but seeing what happened around me kind of caused that shift anyway.

[00:29:19] So I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder two years ago, and two months before my manic episode, a classmate of mine killed himself. And that really rocked our whole year group to the core because it was like, yo, Roger was so happy and he was alive for the party. We couldn't understand. When I had my manic episode and I was going through my depressive period, I considered taking my own life.

[00:29:47] And if it wasn't for, I would say, the fear of missing out with my kids, But more so, the debt of my daughter's father, I probably would have. And I would say his debt saved me in a way because I knew that I couldn't do that to my baby. She already lost one parent. How could I do that to her? And then as a result, being in such a low space where I felt the only relief was ending this life.

[00:30:17] I gave myself permission to live. And I try through my work, through my blog, Dopamine on the Rocks is to teach other people that you don't have to wait until something tragic happens to you for you to give your permission to live, to pursue those dreams, to live life unapologetically, to be your fearless and fabulous self flaws and all the debts around me cause me to start living.

[00:30:45] And sometimes it's a spiritual death. I would say not all debt is sad because there is a version of yourself that you have to kill off to start living as your true authentic self, finding your purpose, walking your purpose. So there are some debt, I would say, when it comes to like spiritual debt, there's something attached to you that you need to kill.

[00:31:07] I think people refer to it as the ego debt. Debt has a. interesting way of pulling you forward if you allow it to, because one thing we know for sure is we're all going to die. That is one thing that we know for certain. We are all going to die, but we get to choose how we live. 

[00:31:26] Jill: Yes. That was amazing because you're right about all of that.

[00:31:29] A lot of us go through those. spiritual deaths, those ego deaths, more than once in a lifetime. But we don't honor that death. We don't honor that transition. We don't grieve the old parts of ourselves that did die off, right? Even if it's something that afterwards, we're like, this is the best thing that ever happened to me.

[00:31:49] We still should. Grieve the endings and grieve the older versions of ourself and it does transform us so much. And so you've mentioned your blog already, but like what other stuff do you do? My 

[00:32:04] Meloney: friends would say I'm a jack of all trades, but right now I would say if I were to really narrow it down, I am a mental health advocate.

[00:32:12] Like I shared my journey with mental health really. propelled me to create a safe space in my blog for other people who were struggling to find that peace within themselves, to live life fully. I created my blog, dopamine on the rocks, to extend the safe space that I created for myself. To others and through Dopamine on the Rocks too, I also work with small businesses to market their own business.

[00:32:39] Being a small business owner, I understand the struggles and the headaches that comes with running a business, incorporating Dopamine on the Rocks from the mental health standpoint, but also utilizing my creative skills to help them market their business, help them differentiate themselves from the competition and help them figure out what is their unique value.

[00:32:59] You. proposition that they present to other people is really something that I'm very, very passionate about. And I'm a podcaster, but most importantly, I'm a mom. I have three beautiful, beautiful children. And I would say that's one of my proudest badges of honor that I wear. So I would say that's Melanie in a nutshell.

[00:33:20] Until I think of something tomorrow and I want to be that. 

[00:33:24] Jill: I love it. And yes, and mom is honestly probably the hardest job. 

[00:33:29] Meloney: Oh, girl. 

[00:33:30] Right? Like, 

[00:33:32] Jill: and I love it. I love being a mother. I love my children. But it is so hard. It's such a hard job. Partially because we're constantly worried about them. Worrying that I'm doing it wrong.

[00:33:44] Worrying that they're going to get hurt. Worrying that somebody's going to hurt them. Like. It's just the whole thing, but gosh, I wouldn't trade it for any. I 

[00:33:51] Meloney: wouldn't trade it for the world. Like I would do it all over again. You know, I actually had two miscarriages before I had my son. So my son is my rainbow baby.

[00:34:01] He's my middle child. He's my rainbow baby. I have a very special relationship with him because of losing one. Well, two, but that particular one before him, because that was already like fully formed heartbeat and everything. So it was very. traumatic to going to a routine checkup, hear no heartbeat. I mean, you're, you're in the process of preparing for a new baby.

[00:34:27] You're, you're pregnant and then you go in a doctor's office and you find out, Oh, you've been walking around with a dead fetus for how long? And going through that whole process of, we're delivering that child. And I remember looking at this little thing And I was like, Oh my God, I never met you before, but I love you so much.

[00:34:45] And what was heartbreaking for me too is the room that I was in. I'm in the maternity ward. So I'm hearing all the other babies cry and all the other moms get to carry on their babies. And here I am losing mine. And then how people treated something like that, because, okay, It wasn't fully formed all the way, just get over it, you can make a next one.

[00:35:07] But no, as a mother, that's still my child, that's still my baby. So it's not something that you get over so easily. I don't think people understand how much that, that too, brought me to the core. I felt. Like, I did something wrong. Like, this is something that I'm supposed to do. My body's supposed to bring this child forward.

[00:35:26] Why is this happening? What's wrong with me? Am I being punished? All those thoughts going through your head, and you're not really having the support. to go through that. So I would say at that time, I would have loved to have you at my side to help me through that. So to hear that they're actually like grief coaches there that can help people deal with these things is amazing.

[00:35:50] And it's through these conversations, through these podcasts, meeting all you wonderful people that I learn so much. If I see somebody struggling with grief, I know, okay, I'm gonna send you over to my girl, Jill. She'll help you process this feeling. After my daughter's father passed away, I didn't deal with the grief of that until like two years ago when it came up again in therapy and I realized I was so emotional about it.

[00:36:14] And I realized that I didn't give myself time to really process what was going on. because of how fast it happened, family issues that arose because of the incident and everything. I didn't give myself time to really grieve. I actually don't know where he's buried. Really? I didn't get to say goodbye.

[00:36:32] Yeah, I didn't. And that, that, that part for me, everyone else had their closure. But due to the things that unfolded after that, I didn't get my chance to say goodbye. And I think that's why it took so long for me to grieve over the years, because I didn't know when I was telling him goodbye that night, that was the last time.

[00:36:53] And I didn't get to go to the nine nights. I didn't get to go to the funeral. I didn't get my chance to. Say my farewell. 

[00:36:59] Jill: Yeah, you didn't have any of the ritual that we need as humans for that closure. Oh, I'm so sorry. That is terrible. On top of the tragedy of losing him. That's just what do they say like salt in the wounds, like that extra layer.

[00:37:14] And if you don't grieve it, it's gonna stay in your body, right? It doesn't just disappear. Like it's gonna stay in there. and potentially come out in ways that are physical illnesses, mental illnesses, anger, rage, all these other things, it makes its way out eventually. 

[00:37:34] Meloney: Exactly. 

[00:37:35] Jill: Well, I'm glad that even if it was later, you were still able to work with it and process it a little bit and it doesn't go away.

[00:37:44] It doesn't go away. Yeah. It's not like you say, okay, well, I processed it two years ago. I'm good. I'm done now. Like, it doesn't, 

[00:37:51] Meloney: no. Because when those big milestones for my daughter come around, like, I do feel that, that pain in my pit of my stomach, that tension in my heart as well. The ache is like, man, like you didn't get to see her graduate.

[00:38:03] You didn't get to see her bloom into literally your twin. And I remember my way of coping with it. Even though I didn't grieve properly, I would look at his picture every day. And the reason why I used to do that is because. His face was fading in my memory and hard to deal with because I'm like, how can the person that I used to see every day face become a blur to me?

[00:38:26] So I made it like a every day, almost like my own little ritual to look at his picture every day. So I wouldn't remember his face until slowly over time, I didn't. And I didn't because it hurt too much. I stopped looking at his picture because it hurt too much. Until two years ago, I was able to go back into my little documents and I pull out this picture and I could look at it and I said, Hey, you get to appreciate the time that you had to spend with this amazing person.

[00:38:54] You know, even if their life was just for a short period, blessed to have known them. And that in itself is beautiful. 

[00:39:01] Jill: It is beautiful. It's still hard. We still want them to be here, but there is something about being able to transition to the gratitude for having had them in my life. I do want to backtrack to, to when you were talking about the miscarriage.

[00:39:18] It's so frustrating that there is that idea of like, well, it wasn't really a baby yet. Cannot stand that because. I know as soon as I found out I was pregnant, there was already that connection. Yeah. And then when you feel a movement, when you hear the heartbeat, when you see the little ultrasounds, like every step, there is more and more of a connection and a bond.

[00:39:43] I am really sorry you had to experience that. to go through the way that people make it out like it's not a big deal. To be honest, there was possibly times in my life where maybe that was even my reaction where maybe I was like, I don't know, it's a miscarriage. Partially we learn. And if that's the way other people do it, then that's what we learn.

[00:40:05] It's not right, but it is just humans. But yeah, I'm really sorry you had to experience that. That's terrible. 

[00:40:11] Meloney: Thank you so much. Thank you. You buried these things on the inside. When I share my stories and I hear the reaction, it's like, oh yeah. That was really 

[00:40:20] Jill: sad. You've shared some really beautiful stuff with us tonight.

[00:40:23] And are you feeling okay? Are you all right now? 

[00:40:26] Meloney: I am feeling okay. This conversation has been like a big exhale. Having my feelings validated, having somebody like genuinely say, Hey, you know, that was a really terrible thing that happened to you. And I'm sorry. And just, To have someone say that we are so conditioned to just move past things so quickly that we don't get to stop and process the impact that that has on you, on your mental health, on your body.

[00:40:57] Even though you might not acknowledge that trauma, your mind and your body holds on to that until you release it. So I'm actually Very, very happy and pleased that I got to share my story on that. And I got to share a little bit about Trace with the world and keep him alive in a sense. Yeah. I don't get to talk about him much.

[00:41:17] So I really happy that you allowed me to hold this space to acknowledge this person that gave me this beautiful daughter and, you know, wow, this bring back some really sweet memories. So thank you so much for giving that to me. 

[00:41:31] Jill: Hmm, it honestly is my pleasure and I mean really just sending you so much love.

[00:41:38] I could feel it. I could feel it. I'm glad you could feel it. I hope you can feel it. When I say that to people, I do consciously try to imagine it like coming out of me and like landing at you. Give it to me, Jill. Give it to me. Exactly. Give it to me. I really do. I appreciate you sharing with us. Um, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people that are going to listen to this and really take a lot away from it.

[00:41:59] Because there's people that are going to hear it and they're going to be like, wow, it's not just me. And then there's people that are going to hear it and be like, wow, people live very different lives than me. And maybe I could have a little more empathy because I don't know what somebody else is experiencing.

[00:42:16] Right. We're so quick. To just judge people and it's really sad. So that's part of my mission here with my podcast is to just have people hear stories and just maybe have a little more empathy and love in the world because we need more of that for sure. 

[00:42:33] Meloney: You definitely do. So I would say before we. We end our podcast, um, episode.

[00:42:39] What was one of the most interesting thing you learned today for when I shared about the Jamaican culture? 

[00:42:45] Jill: Really like the nine knights. I feel at least the way that I was raised, there was never that sense of, space to just experience the death and to experience the grief, but also the joy and celebrating that somebody, again, somebody was in your life.

[00:43:03] It's sad they're gone, but I want to celebrate that I ever had them. We just don't tend to do that. And I love that there's cultures that still continue to really give people permission. To say, Hey, somebody I love just died. Can I not just show up at work tomorrow? Like nothing happened. Can I not just go through the motion, pretend that nothing happened?

[00:43:25] Like I want to have this. And I think that's a beautiful practice and a beautiful ritual. And I really, I love that. So thank you for educating me and just being here with me tonight. I really loved this conversation. I love your energy. Even talking about. Sad things. You still have that energy of like joy that comes out of you.

[00:43:49] So 

[00:43:49] Meloney: really you do appreciate that. I never heard that one before. Thank you. You're very welcome. Yeah. You know, I feel so special. Oh, 

[00:43:58] Jill: you are special. And I really do appreciate you being on today. And I will put a link in my show notes to your blog so people can find you, but thank you. It really was a pleasure.

[00:44:09] It was. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for listening to this episode of Seeing Death Clearly. In next week's episode, I talk with Marie Scott about her journey of love, loss, and resilience. Marie shares her touching story of meeting her late husband, Dave, and the beautiful life they built together.

[00:44:29] Cut short by his battle with esophageal cancer, functional medicine, journaling, and meditation became important parts of her healing. This led to the development of the seven steps to healing after loss, which include embracing healthy relationships and discovering new purposes in life. Finding love again, she now shares her life with Jeff, cherishing each moment together.

[00:44:52] Through her story, she hopes to inspire others to find hope, gratitude, and the courage to embrace life after loss. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or family member who might find it interesting. Your support in spreading the podcast is greatly appreciated. Please consider subscribing on your favorite podcast platform and leaving a five star review.

[00:45:12] Your positive feedback helps recommend the podcast to others. The podcast also offers a paid subscription feature that allows you to financially support the show. Your contribution will help keep the podcast advertisement free, whether your donation is large or small, every amount, is valuable. I sincerely appreciate all of you for listening to the show and supporting me in any way you can.

[00:45:32] You can find a link in the show notes to subscribe to the paid monthly subscription as well as a link to my Venmo if you prefer to make a one time contribution. Thank you and I look forward to seeing you in next week's episode of Seeing Death Clearly.