A Unique Perspective on Death with Nadia Krauss

Nadia grew up in a family of spiritual seekers who openly discussed death. They believed that death wasn't an end but a transition to another dimension. Her mother's peaceful passing in October 2020 was a result of their many conversations about death, making it less frightening.

Her goal today is to stress the importance of open conversations about death to make it less scary and traumatic. Often, society disconnects from discussions about death, grieving, and building meaningful relationships while we're alive.

Her mother and she reconciled in her last ten years, despite past struggles. Her mother's sudden decline was a shock. In just six weeks, she went from a robust state to passing due to leukemia. It was peaceful; they opted out of chemo as per her wishes. They rushed to her side, and she knew she had to be there for her. Witnessing her departure was profound. Her mother's passing seemed like her soul's choice, and it happened swiftly. She waited for them, and as they entered her room, her eyes opened.

Everyone experiences death differently; there's no right or wrong. The message of the podcast is vital – discussing death and preparing for it through conversations can prevent trauma. Her mother's transition was an enlightening experience, contrary to societal norms. She left with peace, love, and a sense of rapture.

Her father's death contrasted sharply. His life took a solitary path due to his self-fulfilling prophecy. He died alone, isolated from loved ones. Forgiveness work allowed them to heal, but his transition was a relief. 

This journey of acceptance and understanding brings her peace. Death is a unique experience for everyone, and openness can help us navigate it with grace.

Nadia's podcast episode with Jill #11 Death’s Sacred Medicine with Jill McClennen | Soul Health Mentor

Contact Nadia through her Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/nadiaskrauss

Transcript

[00:00:00] Nadia: You don't have to be traumatized and you don't have to just have this horrible experience because what my mom and I had was actually rapture. It was literally experienced in rapture. 

[00:00:12] Jill: Welcome back to Seeing Death Clearly. I'm your host, Jill McClennen, a death doula and end of life coach. Here on my show, I have conversations with guests that explore the topics of death, dying, grief, and life itself.

[00:00:26] My goal is to create a space where you can challenge the ideas you might already have about these subjects. I want to encourage you to open your mind and consider perspectives beyond what you may currently believe to be true. In this episode, my guest is Nadia Krauss. We explore a fascinating perspective on death and the unique experiences it can bring.

[00:00:46] Nadia shares a personal story of growing up in a family of spiritual seekers where open conversations about death were the norm. She shares with us about the peaceful passing of her mother and how their conversations about death made the experience less frightening and traumatic. And she also shares the contrasting experience of her father's death.

[00:01:06] Nadia's journey of acceptance and understanding offers a perspective on death that can inspire, enlighten us all. Thank you for joining us for this conversation. Welcome Nadia to the podcast. I'm super excited to have this conversation with you because what was I on your podcast like six months ago, eight months ago?

[00:01:23] Nadia: You know, time is flying so fast. Yes. I think it might even be a little longer than that.

[00:01:29] Jill:. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Cause I know I hadn't even officially decided for sure. I was starting the podcast at that point. And you started to tell me this story about your experience with your mother. And I was like, Oh, you know, I'm thinking of starting a podcast and you really like cheered me on and you gave me some good tips.

[00:01:50] So I really appreciate that. And now look, here we are. You're on my pod. So this is exciting. Yeah. So thank you so much. So why don't you just give us a little bit of background, where you're from, how old you are, anything like that that you want to share? 

[00:02:02] Nadia: Yes. So I'm originally from Germany and I'm turning 48 this year and I've been living in the States only for eight years.

[00:02:10] So basically I met my American husband in Germany, but we lived. in Germany this whole time. And we always joke, we did all our adulting in Germany. And then when we came here, we needed to learn the American way of adulting because it's very different. The background of my story really is that I grew up with a family of spiritual seekers and Talking about death wasn't something that was avoided because it was talked in the family of spiritual seekers.

[00:02:38] It was believed that, and I just have to give this frame of reference because that's going to let the listener know why I was able to be with my mom when she was transitioning in the way that I was. So, It's not the end of life. That's how I grew up. It is just a different dimension when we transition.

[00:02:57] And when my mom passed in October, 2020, she wasn't scared. She had prepared for death. We had lots of conversations about death. And it wasn't scary. It wasn't traumatic. And that's why I'm so glad that you went ahead and did your podcast because it's going to be all these different stories and the listener can see that everybody experiences it different, but I really just wanted to be here today to let the listener know that when you invite for conversations all the time, and when these conversations are had, then it doesn't have to be a scary or traumatic experience.

[00:03:31] Jill: That's so perfect because. I feel like I say that a lot, that if we prepare properly, it doesn't have to be a scary and traumatic experience. But most of us, that's not our lived experience. Our lived experience is something totally different. And I'm hoping that Because we are having this conversation, somebody is going to get to hear it from you who actually went through it.

[00:03:56] And people are starting to get more open having conversations with their loved ones and their friends and thinking about their own death that we're going to start to see more of your experience and less of the experience that most of us in America at least grew up with. I know we did briefly talk about it.

[00:04:14] I heard a little bit and I just remember thinking when you were telling me, just like, wow, this is. That's not what I usually hear. So I'm excited to hear all about it. 

[00:04:25] Nadia: I am so glad to be here and don't get me wrong, like there was reactions around me that really just showed me how disconnected, yeah, society and people are from the death talk, from the grieving talk, from the build relationships while you're alive, right?

[00:04:44] And not have regrets. When someone passes and the things weren't said that needed to be said and where do I even start? Because it was a really, really big experience. I'll start with the reality of things. So my mom was a very robust and healthy woman in her 80s. So she passed at 80, but she was 70s, 80s.

[00:05:07] She was always positive, always looking for the next thing. She was always willing to grow and willing to expand and to have meaningful conversations, but she was also alone the last six years of her life. And I truly believe it was just how life happened. My brother lives in South Africa. We lived here in the States.

[00:05:28] My mom is originally from South Africa, but lived in Germany. And as much as we wanted to work on reuniting the family, it just didn't happen. We couldn't get back there. And so there was this big split and she did come to visit us, which I'm so grateful for. And I think if it wasn't for her coming to visit in 2018, I don't think it would have gone so well for me.

[00:05:50] It was that was a big factor that she came to visit us in 2018 Christmas season 2018 New Year's 2019 she stayed for a whole two months, and that gave me so much peace when she did transition. So two years after that visit, I think it was just. All of a sudden, and this is literally where it feels like out of the blue because she was so robustly healthy, so positive, but literally from the first symptom, physical symptom to her death was six weeks.

[00:06:22] She developed leukemia and she went very peacefully. So these six weeks, There was no chemo. There was no trauma in that way. It was just six weeks of transitioning. And we did everything we could to get to her. And I understand, like from a spiritual perspective, that her soul maybe was just like, okay, I had a good life.

[00:06:45] My kids are not around. This makes no sense with my kids not being here. And I get that. I get that. And when it became clear that she was going to pass, We just made sure to get there. And I knew that I needed to be present for her. So that's from my perspective. But then, you have the outside perspective.

[00:07:05] And it was very strange to watch people. Because everybody's going to be in their process. And they're going to process death. The way they process it. So my dad was the German, my mom, the South African that grew up in a Muslim culture. But when she came to Europe, she just questioned a lot of things. She questioned organized religion.

[00:07:26] That's why I say a family of spiritual seekers, not belonging to any organized religion. And I didn't know this. So I was learning a lot of things. I did not know that when people pass from disease in that culture, it's like hush, hush. They don't talk a disease like it's, it's a shame to have a disease.

[00:07:45] That's what it felt like to me. And I'm thinking to myself, really, seriously, I can't believe that because we're human, we're not invincible. Our body is going to get sick. And I really saw it as. My mom's soul just saying, Hey, it's time to exit. Cause it happened really fast and she didn't suffer. She didn't suffer.

[00:08:05] She would have never wanted to do chemo. If it would have happened at 75, where she maybe had some more hope, I don't think she would have wanted to. To do chemo. So she wanted to die the natural way. Also let the doctors know that they don't put her in oxygen or anything like that, and she waited for our arrival.

[00:08:25] She really was sleeping the whole time. And the minute we walked into the hospital room, her eyes opened. 

[00:08:31] Jill: I actually just heard something recently about that when there's no real explanation why, but how somebody will be. basically unconscious, and then their person comes in, and they just come back, not for a long time, but they're able to like come back and have a little bit of a conversation and spend some time.

[00:08:50] And that really makes me wonder about this idea of the soul. And it's not on like the physical body level that they realize that that's the person that walked in something else told them that that's the person that walked in. And I just really wonder what that is. Do we feel it on like an energetic level or maybe like, does our soul kind of in that transition of one foot in one world and one foot in the other, like, are they observing the situation, like looking down on it and like, Oh, Nadia is here.

[00:09:20] It's time to come back for a few minutes. Like, how does this work? I don't know. And we'll probably never know, but I love thinking about it. 

[00:09:25] Nadia: Yes. I actually love that you opened up that window because it gives me the opportunity to share, which is, I realized not the norm. I do realize that it's the exception, not the rule, but it opens a whole other conversation.

[00:09:39] So mom, like I said, got leukemia and then her body started breaking down very, very fast. Once it was known what it was, she didn't have a lot of time. And that's what we were told by the doctors and they just said, get here as fast as you can. And it was still the pandemic. And it was a miracle that we could even make it that we could see her that everything worked out because I know so many couldn't during time.

[00:10:05] And it literally also was the day after Germany went into a really, really hardcore lockdown. So that window of timing, that divine timing, it wouldn't have happened afterwards. We would have not been able to go see her. And because she was breaking down, she stopped being able to talk and she would type on WhatsApp and that's how she would communicate to everybody, but she wasn't able to do that anymore.

[00:10:30] So the last message that she read, cause you know how you see when someone reads a message. I said to her, mom, we're coming. We're doing everything we can, all the stuff we need to do to get to you as fast as we can. We're coming I know you can't type anymore, but please know, and this is literally what I typed to her.

[00:10:49] I still have so much that I have to tell you, and I'm going to tell you via my heart, I'm going to tell you from my heart to yours. And that opened up a communication channel. That goes beyond speaking the words like I am speaking now. And I literally started communicating with her and you can imagine it like all of a sudden just sentences dropping in.

[00:11:12] Just all of a sudden you have sentences and I would ask all the questions that I wanted to ask her. I would ask them and I would have sentences drop in in answers. And so there was a lot of things that I could ask her while we're traveling to her. That I was still holding onto certain regrets I had and even certain resentment because it was as a daughter, I wasn't resenting her personally, but I wish she would have left my dad because it wasn't a good marriage.

[00:11:39] I was holding onto that resentment. And then in that moment in time, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's so ridiculous that I knew I'm just going to let it go. And that communication channel that we had, I was in that channel for. Two months. And she was with me for two years, like really intensely.

[00:12:00] And now it's changed. She still comes to visit, but it's very soft. It's not sentences dropping in like that. And it feels more like she's just checking up on me, just kind of looking, how am I doing? And it's so nice that we could talk about this as well, because that's what thinking about death and looking at it from a spiritual seeker perspective, like my parents did, where it's not the end of this lifetime.

[00:12:24] And we also obviously had conversations that were about reincarnation and the soul is eternal. So it wasn't the conversation of, which is very unfortunate and I have to bring it up. So my husband had a very different upbringing. Very, very different. And the conversation around death was, are you going to heaven or to hell?

[00:12:45] And that's a fear based conversation to have. It is really hard to relax and to have faith and to follow the flow. If you got this sitting at your neck, like, am I going to hell? Am I going to hell? Is my family member going to hell? It's a horrible thought. And I had to bring that as well. 

[00:13:03] Jill: Yeah, I grew up Christian and the hard part for me was that it almost felt like it wasn't a question of whether I was going to heaven or hell.

[00:13:12] It was like, well, of course I'm not a good person because it felt like I could never be good enough. And that's what I feel like was really the hardest part for me as a child. When I thought of death was that it just never seemed like I was ever Going to be good enough because there were so many rules now that I'm older.

[00:13:31] I'm like, well, of course I was never going to be able to follow all the rules in the Catholic religion. At least I could go and confess my sins and then supposedly they would be forgiven. But that guilt and that shame still stayed with me. And. Did your mother believe she was going to be reincarnated?

[00:13:48] Was that ever a conversation that you'd actually had even before she found out she was dying? 

[00:13:54] Nadia: This is a big conversation and I want to keep it relevant to the listener because where we have such a wide range and spectrum of experiencing death and there is no such thing as right or wrong. There's no dogma around it.

[00:14:05] It literally is the message of your podcast is to just have these conversations around death. And to prepare for death by having conversations so that you don't have to be traumatized and you don't have to just have this horrible experience because what my mom and I had was actually, it is very strange to say this.

[00:14:27] But it's the truth. It's strange to say it because society at large doesn't experience it that way. But it was actually experienced in rapture. It was literally experienced in rapture. And if you go into conversations where people have died and they've seen the tunnel of light and they're going towards the light and then it's, There's something pulling them back where it's like, no, you're not done yet.

[00:14:50] They will often talk about how freeing it was and how the soul leaving the body is very small. It's a very small home for an eternal soul that is grand and large. So this leaving the body is actually a really good feeling. And I could feel that in my mother, I could feel it. So that brought me a lot of joy.

[00:15:12] I was feeling that rapture in her and all she needed. Was to leave with peace, with having seen all her loved ones, having said goodbye, knowing that everybody's good in the sense taken care of. And so peace and love was the energy. And then there was this rapture. There was this absolute rapture. And we often talked about, so this goes into what people will call new age, or they would call it esoteric.

[00:15:41] Some call it woo woo, whatever it is, that was normal in our household. So that wasn't a question. It wasn't a question that we've had past lives. Once you start opening up to the possibility, nobody can tell you it's your own experience, right? But things such as lucid dreaming can happen. It's happened to me where I just had lucid dreams and it's just a knowing.

[00:16:07] And someone else can tell you you're crazy. You're just imagining this stuff, but in your body, you're like, no, it's the truth. And that's why I was saying, there's no dogma around this conversation. That's just opening it up to know that there's a different kind of experience that is possible. And it was very healing.

[00:16:25] It was a huge mother daughter healing chapter that just. came to completion. And what is the craziest thing? This is how you can't make this stuff up. A day after her funeral, it's like really strict lockdown. That it happened within six weeks and that it went so peacefully for her. And this is also things where it's just miraculous.

[00:16:45] She had just downsized her apartment to move to another city. And she had a companion and she had moved in with him. She was looking for her own space, but the pandemic was making it difficult. So basically, it was downsized. If she didn't do that already, we would have really struggled not living in Germany anymore.

[00:17:04] So there's a part. And you mentioned it earlier. It's like the soul knew, like the higher self, the not human part of us, kind of already knew what was coming. And the not human part of us knows that the person they love just walked into the room because they're not fully in the body anymore. The soul is already leaving.

[00:17:23] It's a whole process, just like a baby. doesn't see clearly when it's first born, right? It takes time for the soul to ground into the body. I don't, I'm not a mother, so I've never experienced it, but I know that I always get told they can't focus quite yet. You're just seeing shadows and light. So the soul hasn't fully landed in the body.

[00:17:44] And then there's also the, and now I don't know what the English. Terminology is, but the phenomena, which is very, very sad for the parents, but where the baby just dies within the first year and there's no medical explanation, they were healthy on a spiritual level. It's just the soul exiting. I'm sure there's amazing people out there that help parents like that find healing, but those were the kind of conversations we would have in our household.

[00:18:09] Jill: It's beautiful to have conversations like that. I try to, as well with my children, try to leave The door open for them to discover on their own what they believe. Mm hmm. And I'm kind of, I guess you would say, woo, right? I was reading tarot cards all day yesterday. I've got, got like my little altar over there.

[00:18:30] But when my children ask me questions about different religions, like things that they've heard, I never say, oh, that's not right. No, don't believe that. And you just ask, what did you hear about it? Would you learn about it? I want them to be able to form their own decisions around it. Most likely, they'll probably turn out pretty much like my husband and I, which is not necessarily following one specific religion.

[00:18:54] But I like the wonder. I like the curiosity. Even now, I like not knowing for sure what happens to our souls and even what our souls are. I'm not really sure. And I love all of it. I love talking about it and thinking about it. And I hope that they continue to kind of be like that even into adulthood, spirituality and religion and death and what happens to us afterwards.

[00:19:18] I'm pretty much open to all of it. And that's why I love these conversations because I get to learn a lot and just think about it. I wanted to kind of Also go back to, you said when your mother came to visit, it was like two years before she died. Were you able to like have conversations with her that you think brought a peace to like her death?

[00:19:39] Or was it just that you felt almost like just grateful for having that time with her? My mother lives close to me. And I know that there's times when I almost like take that for granted. We're going there tonight for dinner and it's like, okay, we're going to go to Grammy's house and I cross stitch, my husband watches Jeopardy.

[00:19:57] Like we go through our little like motions. And I think when you're away from somebody for any length of time, what do they say? Absence makes the heart grow fonder. That it gives us the ability that then when we are together, we almost like, treasure that time more than we would if it's somebody we see daily.

[00:20:17] Nadia: Absolutely. The last 10 years of my mom's life, she really showed up for a lot of spiritual healing work. And we showed up as a mother daughter team. And so this is Beyond the normal coffee conversation, this is beyond the, Hey, let's watch a TV show together. This is beyond all the human things we do, which are wonderful, like totally quality time, eating a good meal and going to the mall and having a good time.

[00:20:46] Absolutely. That was what was so wonderful when she was here that we got to do that again, because we didn't have it. And I showed her all the favorite places that I had discovered and took her out for dinner. We always did a thing where she hated clothes shopping. I don't know what it was because for me, it was easy.

[00:21:06] So I would dress her and we would go clothes shopping and she loved that. And we have several photo shoots where she's modeling her clothes. So that was the human part. That was the, Oh my gosh, it's so wonderful that you're here. And she got to see our home in the States. And it literally also felt like our home only became a home because of her presence, because we had lived in Germany this whole time.

[00:21:28] We were super culture shocked. We're still in the process of processing. So that is all the parts that were wonderful. And that brought healing. But I think we could only experience it so deeply and so appreciatively because of all the work we had done. And when I talk about spiritual healing work, it is having difficult conversations.

[00:21:49] It's hearing about her childhood and her childhood wounds and her only doing the best she can, but you can only do what you know. And if. You don't know you can't do this is called the mother wound and the father wound and forgiveness work and looking at your patterns, looking at the lineage, the maternal lineage, the paternal lineage.

[00:22:11] So this goes into ancestry healing. So this is a different conversation, but it literally was all that work that was done. that prepared us to have the nicest experience humanly possible when she was here to visit.

[00:22:26] Jill: The mother wound is something that I've been trying to learn about. Even before I became a Death Doula, I had started learning about it.

[00:22:36] But even more now, I find that when I observe a lot of what people are going through when somebody's dying, it is so much of this wounding in us that is being triggered and it's being poked at and We're not in a place often with our parents, especially, I mean, I know for me, at least with my mom and with my dad, I don't really know that much about the experiences that they've had growing up.

[00:23:08] Yes. And as a parent now, there's times when. I don't know if I want to share my pain with my children, my trauma with my children, because I'm afraid that that'll give it to them. But really in the long run, we give it to our children by the way that we interact with them and interact with the world and the conversations that we're having with other people that they're overhearing.

[00:23:34] So we're still giving it to them without actually having the conversation. I'm trying really hard to not do that. And I still struggle though a little bit with having the conversation with my mom, partially because she will shut down a little. And actually that's where like around the Me Too movement, there was a time when my mom and I were like out on the porch, and like a lot of stuff ended up coming out and being talked about.

[00:23:59] And it was very healing, I think, for the two of us together, as mother and daughter, but also just as women, to really kind of be there to like witness. It's each other's experiences. And I love that you and your mom were like really kind of able to do that almost like it sounds throughout your entire life.

[00:24:20] It wasn't like you had to wait just until this one moment to have the conversations. And now a lot of what I want to help my clients with is almost that sense of closure. It feels to me, and I don't know yet, neither one of my parents have died. So I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that if you can have that sense of closure with your parents, the grief will not be as painful and will be as intense because you'll feel at peace with your relationship with them.

[00:24:54] You're not going to have those regrets and the, Oh, I wish we would have talked about this. And now I don't have that opportunity. And then if somebody's parents already died, I think we could still have that closure. Your example of like still talking with your mother. I know not everybody that's listening is in a, like a place where they can really believe that that conversation can be happening.

[00:25:15] Yes. I do believe, especially when it's not too long since they have transitioned, that they can still more easily communicate with us because they're not fully out of this human experience. And really, It doesn't hurt for somebody to say, you know what, my mother or my father or my husband even, or whoever has recently died and I want to have this conversation with them.

[00:25:42] And then when you hear the answer back, like I know the one time that I had spoken essentially with somebody that had crossed over, part of me did kind of feel like I was going crazy. I was like, am I losing my mind? Because it's not a voice in your head, but it definitely was like, is that me talking to myself?

[00:26:00] What is that that's happening? And so there's that doubt and that confusion that would kind of come up for a lot of people. But it's nice that we can at least try. It doesn't hurt to try. And maybe you'll get an answer back. And maybe... Who cares, really, if it's you answering yourself back? If the experience helps you have this sense of closure, then why not try it?

[00:26:23] You know, have the conversation from your heart and in your mind and all, you know, inside with your loved one. Because closure is very important, especially, I think, with our parents, because there's so much Just stuff that comes from the parent child relationship and yeah, your experience is really, really amazing. I love it. 

[00:26:44] Nadia: You said something though, which made me realize that I'm going to share my father's death as well, because it was a very different experience. Not that it was bad, but very different. My parents were those spiritual seekers, they were older parents, so they had me, my mom had me at age 35. I was 36 and had my brother at 42 and it was quite a pregnancy.

[00:27:10] So my parents were always the older parents and that's why at age 47, I don't have parents anymore because my dad died in 2014 and she died in 2020. But he lived a life where he did really good planting seeds when I was a teenager. But then. He just got worse as he got older and he was the type of man that would hold monologues and would talk over you and when you hold monologues and talk over people, you isolate yourself, nobody wants to hang out with you, nobody wants to be with you, because he was very forcing and it was all about him, all about him, very, very Self centered.

[00:27:55] And that got worse and worse as he got older. And because he had always been interested in esoteric and new age or past life, he opened himself up to certain things that weren't actually healthy for him. But the only reason that he got in trouble is because he had no grounding. He had no connection to this reality because relationships give us connection.

[00:28:18] They give us our human experience. And when you start only being up there in your head, That's why I actually don't like the term because I think wuwu is ungrounded. It's very, very important to stay grounded while you experience your divinity. That's my language. He would always tell it and he would do cards.

[00:28:35] He had his cards and he would do card readings for himself and he would always say things, and this was in his. 50s, maybe he would say things like, Oh yeah, the cards are always saying the same thing. They're always saying, I'm going to die alone. So instead of working on the relationships or healing, he couldn't, he didn't have access to it.

[00:28:52] So it was a self fulfilling prophecy, but it was his doing the isolation. So he really did die alone. He died in the hospital and it was just his heart giving out. It was a natural death. The heart just got weaker and weaker. But just before he died, he pulled a stunt. He went to visit my brother in South Africa.

[00:29:12] He didn't tell anybody. He just showed up. And it was because he knew he was dying. This is another part where he knew he was dying and he needed to make amends with his son. And it was very traumatic in that moment because my dad wasn't healthy anymore. You could call it dimension. He was just not in his best mind.

[00:29:30] And As he was passed and as he passed, and this is why I'm sharing it, there weren't any grudges held because every family member, my brother, me, and my mom all did the forgiveness work. That's the spiritual work. We all did the forgiveness work, but what I can really say, and it's said with love because we were all relieved when he transitioned because he was a tyrant at the end of his life.

[00:29:57] So can you see how it went? Completely different to my mom. We did talk about mediumship and because we did talk about that there are people and these are also grief counselors that have mediumship abilities that will help family members heal. For people like me that are open to it and that seek it, and I was actually talking to a grief counselor three days after, but it wasn't because I was like, Hey, you have to help me.

[00:30:24] I was just literally telling her my dad passed and we've all done the forgiveness work. We're quite relieved. And he literally sent a message via her. Because that was a doorway and he felt that what I mentioned that like the relief and all of a sudden behind the veils you can see clearly and everything that seems so messed up as a human is now you can see and he wanted to have that conversation the way I had it with my mom afterwards.

[00:30:52] And he just wanted to tell me all these things that he's now knowing and seeing. Because our relationship wasn't good at the end of his life, that thought scared me. And I set a very healthy boundary. And the healthy boundary was, Dad, I'm so glad you're finding healing. And I want that for you. But I'm not ready for this and I wasn't ever ready for it.

[00:31:15] And when my mom passed, I literally had that heart conversation. I said, mom, I appreciate both you and dad. And if you want to send some guidance my way, then so be it. But if dad has something to say, then it comes via you. And do you see how it's the same parallel? Cause you build it here, you need it here.

[00:31:34] And just because these abilities and mediumship is possible, doesn't mean that I have to do it. Yeah. So that was very important. And also that it was really the last 10 years of my mom's life that we got so close. We had a lot of struggles when I was a teenager and a young adult. And now today I understand it's because of her pain and her wound.

[00:31:56] And that was that ancestral healing. I understand it now, but as a teenager, it was tough. And there was even a period of time where I was walking my path. And that's also part of being a daughter. And there was something happening that she was trying to force on me from her South African Muslim culture conditioning.

[00:32:16] And I, as a European, I was like, I'm not having it. And I didn't speak to her for three months and I was willing to walk away. And only because she was the woman that she was, she literally self reflected and said, do I really want to lose my daughter over this? Do I really want that? And her answer was like, I don't want her, want to lose her.

[00:32:37] She didn't say, I'm sorry. She just said, can we just forget about this, please? And can we just try again? That's something how she said it. And that was amazing to me. And that's when I think our true healing began. And that's important to share this part so that people don't get the wrong idea that everything was so fantastic.

[00:32:55] No, every human has their struggle. It's the willingness. And that was what my mom wanted. She was willing to self reflect, she was willing to grow. And I as her daughter was then so that she got so much respect from me when she did that so much respect. 

[00:33:11] Jill: I really love that. It gives me hope. that this work is possible for people, just the fact that your mother self reflected and then came to you and was like, you know what, let's just start over.

[00:33:23] Cause there's even times for me where we kind of talked about it a little bit really before we officially started recording because this morning my daughter wanted to go jump on trampolines. And I said, Oh, I have a lot of work to do, even though it's a Sunday. She said, Oh, but you always have work to do.

[00:33:38] She's only nine. And I feel the regret and the shame for the way that things were in the past. And even now I'm still working on that really showing up because the personal relationships, the relationships with my children and with my husband, these are the things that mean the most to me, but yet I still let work and all these other responsibilities really push that all to the back burner.

[00:34:03] And there's times when I almost wish I could start over with her. Like. Even just from the moment I found out I was pregnant, really just start our relationship over. But I've done a lot of healing work on myself, especially the last five years. I mean, it really has been something that I've made the conscious effort because I want to have the best relationship that I can with her.

[00:34:27] And you know, today was one of those days where she called me out on it. And I was like, all right, you're right. Let's do it. I'll just postpone things. It'll be fine. And it is, it's fine. It's all fine. And this might be a day that I look back on when I'm dying and think, wow, I'm so glad I went to that trampoline park on that Sunday.

[00:34:46] Nadia: It really was the last 10 years of her life. She's already in her seventies. And because she was an older mom, I was in my mid thirties going towards forties. So all this happened later in life, but it's so beautiful that if you're willing, it's possible. And what I wanted to say, because this was me, my inner child.

[00:35:06] Because we also have in our child work to do once we realize the mother wound and the father wound and we're showing up we're forgiving our parents but then it's also we can't blame our parents it's it's over with we're adults now so we need to become the ideal mother and the ideal father and basically parent ourselves in the way We wished to have parents.

[00:35:28] And so in that context, it's amazing what you can share with children. So I just wanted to plant that seed. So you're human. I'm human. Everybody's human. So we have human struggles. So in this realization of, Oh my gosh, yes. I do put work before spending time with you. Just saying that, you know how soothing that is for a child to hear?

[00:35:53] This was also something that happened between my mom. It was a healing moment. It is the wrong impression to think because you're the mom, you have to be the strong one. You need to keep it together. You can't be vulnerable. You can't be admitting to things like that. That is actually really the wrong approach because it's feelings you're having.

[00:36:11] And if you share those feelings, just like you would with anybody, but obviously I'm imagining talking to your nine year old daughter, right? I'm imagining sometimes I struggle with this and just letting her know, you're so right. Thanks for calling me out, but I have to let you know, I do struggle with this.

[00:36:29] But I'm going to do this today. And you basically let her in on your process. You let her in on the fact that it's actually hard for you. How amazing that makes her feel. And then you grow together. Cause that happened. There was one thing where I can't even tell you exactly, but my mom finally let her guard down.

[00:36:48] And she finally wasn't like, I, I need to have it together. I'm the mother. How can my daughter be wiser than me? And it's not that we're wiser. It's just, we're a different generation. She let her guard down and she admitted to something and I went soft immediately. Like I was angry. And as soon as she just said, look, I really struggle with this.

[00:37:07] I went so soft. I'm like, I'm so sorry, mom. I didn't know you struggle with this. I just wanted to plant a seed. 

[00:37:13] Jill: I'm always trying to be better and learn more and. Thinking about my own death and thinking about the fact that one day my mother will die and one day one of my children could die before me as much as I don't like to think about that part but it really has helped me on my path of healing.

[00:37:32] Yes When you really realize that all of us will die at some point You really do start to see clearer what's important in life and what's not important. You still have to then do the work to make the changes. It's not like seeing it just makes it go away, but it's always a process. And I am trying to be more honest about it.

[00:37:56] Nadia:The fact that you're talking about it, you are, it was just that perspective that I wanted to give because I think I'm not a mom. So in this lifetime, I chose not to have children, just on a very subconscious level. We'll revert back to things our parents did, but we actually didn't like, but it's because it's so conditioned.

[00:38:13] And when we're self reflective, we're shocked for a moment. Cause this happened to me, not with my own child, but I was looking after a child and I said something and I literally went like, what the heck? Where did it come from? And it was something my father would do. And it was horrible. And in that moment, I felt so ashamed because he had mentioned shame.

[00:38:31] Right. But if I would have. Had the knowledge I have now, and the more you do it, the faster you get, right? I could have said, look, I'm really sorry. I just did that. I didn't mean to do that. And then it would have almost like nulled it. Right? So that's where that's coming from. It's that self reflection. I'm sure if I had kids in this lifetime, I would have many moments like that.

[00:38:51] And I would be like, what the heck? Then I think the best we can do as parents is just self reflect and course correct. But I know you're doing it. Because you're talking about it and the part that you just, which is so valuable when you use the frame of reference at none of us getting out here or getting out of here alive, none of us.

[00:39:10] So having the best life now, what do I want to build? Like what legacy do I want to build with my children, with the relations? I think you even said that when you were guests on my podcast, Soul Health Mentor, you said something like that. I remember that. And I loved it then. And I love it now. It is so powerful.

[00:39:27] To approach life and it sounds paradox, but to approach life with death in mind. Yeah. 

[00:39:33] Jill: It part of a lot of spiritual belief systems to really think about your death, including Christianity. Memento Mori was one of the things where if you go into the really old churches and you'll see there's sculptures and paintings and they have skulls and all these different things that was part of.

[00:39:52] The way that we used to do things, not as much anymore, even though I have all my skull t shirt, right? I got it at five below. They have multiple different versions of skull shirts. Everybody's watching the horror movies and they do all this stuff. But yet then when I say to them, Have you thought about what you want at the end of life?

[00:40:10] Have you talked to your family about it? People shut down. And I'm like, this is so interesting. We're so obsessed with death and skulls and Halloween and all this stuff when it's entertainment. But yet the realness. of death and dying and the fact that we're all going to die. People are terrified and they don't want to talk about it.

[00:40:31] And I'm like, where's this disconnect? Why do we have this fascination and fear? That's something that I was kind of surprised considering I know a lot of people that Halloween's their favorite holiday and all these different things. And I thought, oh, you know, all these people want to talk to me. And now they're like, nope, nope, nope. Don't want to talk about it

[00:40:50] Nadia:. Everybody's going to come to it or not. And that's the choice. And nothing is right or wrong. There's no dogma around it. It literally is the invitation to talk about death, to talk about dying, to talk about grieving, so that it doesn't have to be traumatizing. But at the end of the day, everybody's going to make their same choice, their own choice.

[00:41:10] And I said same choice because sometimes it's just a pattern. For me, the answer is that I've always wanted to be connected to my heart and soul. That was something that because of the conversations that my dad would have with me at a very young age, 11, he was planting all the right seeds, even though he couldn't do the things that I had wished for as, as a father.

[00:41:33] He, he planted the right seeds for me in the sense of spiritual growth and development. And so at a very young age, his conversations and questions led me to, Hey, I want to cultivate the light within me. That was a decision I made very young. And that light within me then had to learn to deal with all these aspects of life.

[00:41:56] And not everything is pretty and to light their shadow. There's darkness. And I think really, I have several friends that are scared to look within. And that's really what it is. It's the fear of literally looking within. And I think the ego, the monkey mind, right, that voice in our head will tell us all these stories about, you can't open the closet, there's monsters in there, you can't open it, you need to keep those monsters shut away.

[00:42:25] And until that decision, I want to connect with my heart and soul or I want to foster and cultivate the light within me. Think until that decision isn't made, people are going to run and there's nothing wrong with it. It's just something I'm watching in friends and that I've known for over 20 years and that sort of thing, spiritual healing work, you know, and then.

[00:42:47] friends that I've known for more than 28 years, superficially wanting to talk about spiritual healing with the books they've read, but when you actually offer services, then they honestly answer, no, that scares me. 

[00:42:58] Jill: Yeah. And I like the way that you worded it of, you know, there's nothing wrong with people.

[00:43:04] I'm not judging the fact that it's happening, it's just I'm observing it and I'm finding it interesting that this seems to be the way that we're all kind of doing things. But I don't know. I mean, we're all going to have to face it at some point. We want to or not. I'm hoping that over time, I have a Facebook group.

[00:43:24] I post questions in there and I I've actually found it interesting that I've had a few people say they left the group and then they came back or they were really afraid at first about the group, but then once they started really kind of interacting with it, they found it really helpful. Yeah. Seems like our fear around talking about it is so much worse than actually talking about it. It's that we're so afraid that we just don't even try. 

[00:43:53] Nadia: And I love that you mentioned your Facebook group because I'm in your Facebook group. I love the questions you give and I see how engaged everybody is and how everybody has their own question and I love how you facilitate that space and you just said it.

[00:44:05] It's the monkey mind. It's literally that ego part of you which is conditioning. It's just conditioning. And that conditioning is eons, like thousands of years old. Like, we have a reptilian brain. We have DNA. We have memory that goes beyond what we're doing right now. That part, it makes so much sense that people will say, Oh my gosh, it's so scary.

[00:44:26] But then they actually do it. The sense I'm getting in your group is that it's liberating to talk about these things. Because nowhere else can you talk about these, these are not the normal conversations like normally in quotation marks that, that people have, but it's so important. It's meaningful conversations and you do a really great job.

[00:44:45] Jill: Thank you. I love my group and I try to make it like, I'm not in there like trying to sell things. I don't let other people go in and try to sell things. I want it to just be that safe space for people to have the conversation. If they want to participate. And a lot of people, it seems like they're like, no, I read your questions every day.

[00:45:04] They never comment. They never like them. So I don't realize that that's happening. And that's fine, too. I don't care. But I love this space. And I love being part of the conversations and I just really enjoy it, but I did find it, again, kind of not surprising, but also surprising that a couple people were like, no, I was actually really afraid to get into the group.

[00:45:26] And then once I did, it was fine. I was like, oh, okay, well, I'm glad you find it calm and not morbid and scary, but. Yes. Well, it's about time because this always happens to me. I could talk and talk and talk, but is there anything you want to leave us with? Any promotional stuff? Like if you have any offerings that you want to talk about?

[00:45:48] Nadia: So I just would like the listener to check out Soul Health Mentor Podcast if they feel called and your episode you came to soul health mentor podcast and it was and it's called what did we call it we call it death dying grieving… 

[00:46:02] Jill: Something like that I don't remember but you know what I'll do I'll just post a link to the podcast episode in the show notes it's super easy for people to find it through the show notes so I'll post a link there thanks Yeah, awesome.

[00:46:14] Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was a great conversation. I really enjoyed the first time we talked. I really enjoyed this time and I appreciate you taking time out of your Sunday to come talk to me. Thank you. It's a pleasure. My guest next week is Casey Stevens. Casey and I talk about a significant loss she had during her high school years.

[00:46:35] Her supportive parents played an important role in helping her process grief from this loss. This death is part of what led her towards a career in psychology, where she now helps others navigate their emotional journeys. Her volunteer experiences, including a touching story from her youth, Highlight the profound impact of human connection and the value of giving back.

[00:46:56] Tune in next week to discover more about her remarkable path and the lessons she's learned along the way. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or family member who might find it interesting. Your support in spreading the podcast is greatly appreciated. Please consider subscribing on your favorite podcast platform and leaving a five star review. Your positive feedback helps recommend the podcast to others. The podcast also offers a paid subscription feature that allows you to financially support the show. Your contribution will help keep the podcast advertisement free, whether your donation is large or small, every amount is valuable. I sincerely appreciate all of you for listening to the show and supporting me in any way you can. You can find a link in the show notes to subscribe to the paid monthly subscription as well as a link to my Venmo if you prefer to make a one time contribution. Thank you and I look forward to seeing you in next week's episode of Seeing Death Clearly.